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[Sonlirain]

Just to drive the point home. German tanks have no armor (effective armor anyway) at any tier. Maybe the maus is well armored but from what i saw people just penetrate the front of its turret and laugh because it was put against tanks made in the 60's.

The game itself has a plethora of bugs and glitches (i uploaded a couple videos showing them off on my youtube) and seriously. if you want to play then play russian (or british) planes or american tanks.
Don't touch germans at all.

[Burnt Pies]

Just to drive the point home. German tanks have no armor (effective armor anyway) at any tier. Maybe the maus is well armored but from what i saw people just penetrate the front of its turret and laugh because it was put against tanks made in the 60's.

yeah, front of the turret is the weakpoint (along with the lower glacis, but that's a lot smaller and doesn't contain 4 out of 5 crewmembers), but on the other hand the thing can penetrate the IS-4 from the front, and you can usually bait out shots with your turret turned 45 degrees to one side, making it invulnerable. In a straight up fight, I'd bet on a well driven Maus over anything else, although I've not seen it fight many M103s so far.

A poorly driven Maus that points its' turret at stuff gets rekt because there's a lot of fragile stuff in that turret. A well driven Maus is impenetrable and carries a game. It's kinda WoT Maus/E-100 tactics, but there's no T9/10 TDs, gold ammo or satellite arty to ruin your day.

[Sonlirain]

Cept your turret in WT turns even slower than in WoT and everyone uses shells that would be counted as gold ammo in WoT.
Driving the point further the random penetration in WoT (+ - 20% if i remember right)means you might not get penetrated by a shot that should penetrate if you go by average penetration values giving the maus some extra "saving throws" against takign damage.

Also if you want to kill something you have to point your turret at it...

[TheBronzePickle]

The Germans perform perfectly fine. Except for the four vehicles with short-barreled howitzers instead of longer-barreled guns, the German guns are really accurate out to about 2 kilometers, so any German tanker who actually knows what he's doing has no problem killing enemies long before the enemy can effectively do the same.

Armor is definitely a problem for the Germans, but it's not as big a deal when you know what you're doing. No tank has armor that's completely impenetrable, and German guns are probably the best at repeatedly hitting weak spots. The game isn't balanced, but balance is overrated anyway. The Germans are perfectly effective when the people in the tanks don't ignore their strengths and weaknesses (like I do almost constantly and get myself killed a lot).

[Sonlirain]

To be honest the howitzers (tier 1 and 2) are ok... ish. The AP shells you start with are only good against german tanks but it works against russians when you get HEAT.
Of course that's only for arcade because in realistic where most encounters happen at 1 km... yeah.

Also note that the 85 mm gun russians get has a higher shell velocity and lower weight meaning even lower drop compared to the tigers 88 mm and with no rangefinding skill on my gunner the shells go all over the place anyway.

[Erkki]

The Germans perform perfectly fine.

Yes, they perform so perfectly fine, its surprising that so few play them. But why would they when they can win over 80% of their matches in an M4, because, you know, somehow German players happen to be bad, right?

[Burnt Pies]

I'll take realism over the whim of the Random Number God any day.

And sure, people are throwing the equivalent of gold ammo around, but they're not firing it out of hideously ahistorical guns, which means the IS-4's 'gold' only has 230 pen, barely enough to pen that 220mm cheek (And not enough to go through the lower glacis). At ranges of 300m+, a front on Maus laughs off the IS-4. At ranges of 500m+, it'll ignore even the T-54's new APCR.

And the idea of angling is that you wait for them to fire into the well angled side or cheek of your turret, hence baiting it out. Reload on all the high tier guns is pretty long, you've got time to point the turret back at your target, aim in and fire off a shot then start angling again if you're quick about it.

The only things a Maus really has to worry about right now are the top tier murricans, Tiger 105s, Jagdtigers and other Mäuse, and if you take a deliberately reduced ammo load you can severely cut the effectiveness of the American HEAT shells too. It's an exceedingly powerful tank.

[TheBronzePickle]

To be honest the howitzers (tier 1 and 2) are ok... ish. The AP shells you start with are only good against german tanks but it works against russians when you get HEAT.
Of course that's only for arcade because in realistic where most encounters happen at 1 km... yeah.

Also note that the 85 mm gun russians get has a higher shell velocity and lower weight meaning even lower drop compared to the tigers 88 mm and with no rangefinding skill on my gunner the shells go all over the place anyway.

The velocity is better, but the Russians have increased dispersion. I'm pretty sure Gaijin's excuse is that the Russian optics were horrible, horrible pieces of shit during WW2. In reality, though, it serves as a gentle balancing feature that gives Germans a bit of a (historically accurate) edge on the murder time fun time.

Yes, they perform so perfectly fine, its surprising that so few play them. But why would they when they can win over 80% of their matches in an M4, because, you know, somehow German players happen to be bad, right?

The M4 doesn't win that often at all. I drive the damn thing. I get roughly even win-loss.

Pretty much every German gun the Sherman goes up against has no problems penetrating it from any angle. The M4A1 has an advantage in that it's going up against relatively low-tier opponents without any significant difference from the higher-tier 75mm Shermans. The M4 goes up against its peers, and it shows. The A2 probably ends up a bit underclassed, actually, though don't take my word on that since I haven't had a chance to use it yet.

I do know that the 3-inch Shermans have much better killing performance, but I haven't really had enough experience with them either way to tell how well they actually match up.

Also, I suppose that my experience has a lot to do with the people I play with. Maybe the American and Russian tankers I end up with are all window-licking glue-sniffers. Maybe the Germans are old Nazi officers reliving their glory days. I know that the actual quality of the players varies heavily based on what time you're playing, implying that there might be a lot of little kids on at certain hours while older, better players show up at others.

[Erkki]

You really see it better in sim mode where its Germans vs. everyone else. Dont compare the tanks in absolute terms, but instead in relation to each other, especially the fighting pairs at same BRs. I play the two sides more or less evenly(and lately mostly Allies) and I believe that my 85%-ish victory ratio for all Allied tanks combined is more than just observational bias.

There isnt a single BR where the best option is German... And a whole lot of BRs where they are just trash. Waiting queue numbers reflect game balance.

[TheBronzePickle]

I play Sim mode. I guess you do play at a different time than I do, because when I play the player numbers, and the win-loss, are pretty even.

[Chosrau]

And the idea of angling is that you wait for them to fire into the well angled side or cheek of your turret, hence baiting it out. Reload on all the high tier guns is pretty long, you've got time to point the turret back at your target, aim in and fire off a shot then start angling again if you're quick about it.

Until people learn not fire at an angled Maus turret, but instead wait for you to turn your turret. Or even worse, start moving up on you, since you aren't even looking at them. I don't think a Maus can even fire at a T-54 right next to it, because the turret is mounted to high for that.

The Germans perform perfectly fine. Except for the four vehicles with short-barreled howitzers instead of longer-barreled guns, the German guns are really accurate out to about 2 kilometers, so any German tanker who actually knows what he's doing has no problem killing enemies long before the enemy can effectively do the same.

Armor(frontal)
Tiger 1: 130mm, when angled
76mm Jumbo: 160+ mm

Gun(using values from the highest pen ammo)
Tiger: ~130mm at point-blank range
76mm Jumbo: ~190mm at point blank, 150mm at 1 km

Both have BR 5.7

Not something I would call a fair matchup.

[RedKing]

After much painful grinding, I finally unlocked and purchased the Tiger H1. Cackling with glee, I loaded up a match intent on curbstomping the opposition the way I had been faceraped by Tigers so many times in the past.

Then I start seeing the opposition arrayed against me. I watch my Tiger teammates getting wrecked by Sherman Jumbos. I...a Patton?? I've never seen that before!
Incoming aircraft, I'm not worr....IS THAT A GODDAMN B-17??!??

find a happy place
find a happy place
find a happy place
find a
*BOOM*

Match over.

[TheBronzePickle]

Aircraft are evil. That's just a given, no matter what tank or mode you're playing, unless you're SPAA... and even then, aircraft are still evil sometimes.

As for the Jumbo, the Tiger does have one tiny, inconsequential advantage in that it's 2 kph faster.

It's a tiny, inconsequential advantage that stacks up if you use it right. Outflanking is the art of the gods, and it's how I keep competitive with woefully incapable vehicles. It's not even that hard: most players have really specific paths they follow. Straying off to the right places means you can drive right through the enemy lines and start hitting everybody in the bum. Especially if the enemy is getting tunnel vision, it can be very easy to just sweep up entire swathes of tanks before anyone even cares enough to try fighting back. It even works in non-Sim modes as long as you keep your head down enough.

I've done it in some tanks you'd think were ridiculous, too, like the Tiger or the KV-2. It's not hard at all.

[Aseaheru]

You mean unless you are SPAA or have a MG/autocannon.

Its fun shooting down bombers in a T-60

[RedKing]

It was more just the shock of Gaijin's wonderful matchmaking system always plonking down big heaps of Tigers against my Tier II and early Tier III US/USSR tanks, and of course, once I'm on the other end of that equation, it's matching me against Tier IV shit. Seems no matter what lineup I bring to the table, I'm always fighting from the short end of the stick.