Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[kaijyuu]

First off, therapists associated with religion are bullshit and should be avoided. Personal experience here; mine made me far, far worse until I ignored him and told him what he wanted to hear, just so I could end the guilt tripping.

Secondly, not all therapists are competent and if possible he should shop around until he finds one he can resonate with.

Thirdly, be there for him.

[Scoops Novel]

I'd like some hardish advice for both personal and likely personal reasons and simply being on these boards, as i don't know what to say to either.

[Mafia_Puppet]

First off, therapists associated with religion are bullshit and should be avoided. Personal experience here; mine made me far, far worse until I ignored him and told him what he wanted to hear, just so I could end the guilt tripping.

Certain kinds of patients need certain kinds of therapy. Just because in your particular experience, a religious therapy didn't work does not mean that religious therapy is not a good match for any patient. I've personally met Buddhists who basically said that its self-actualizing and goal-based philosophy is what lead them out of very dark points in their lives. I may be an atheist that can't be persuaded by that kind of therapy, but there is a large swath of people that are more influenced by emotional and dogmatic therapy than rational argument. In fact, the very nature of clinical depression makes rational argument one of the least effective methods for penetrating many people with a mental illness that includes depression.

Secondly, not all therapists are competent and if possible he should shop around until he finds one he can resonate with.

This is true, but if his friend is in charge of managing his own care, he should be careful telling him things like that. Not all therapists are competent is a catch-all excuse that could enable him to quit a competent doctor prematurely or quit seeking care altogether.

Thirdly, be there for him.

In my experience, one of the most effective ways to ensure someone doesn't hurt themselves is to appeal to their social responsibility. By investing your time in him, you make him feel obligated to return your effort. Tell him how you feel, and he'll feel more obligated to tell you how he feels. Promise to help him in concrete ways, and try to get him to promise not to hurt himself, etc. Making him verbally promise not to do things is important, even if you aren't sure if he's actually planning on going through with something he talks about.

Also, if he hasn't tried to kill himself by now, it's probably cry for help bullshit. People who really want to kill themselves will probably try it within a day or two of telling someone about it. The really serious ones don't bother with telling people. He's still depressed and needs help, but he doesn't actually need to be on suicide watch or anything. While he's probably in a lot of pain, depressed people are known to overstate their pain to loved ones as a way to seek comfort....

[Darkmere]

This thread's a month old. I still can't wrap my brain around the first necropost....

[Vector]

I'd like some hardish advice for both personal and likely personal reasons and simply being on these boards, as i don't know what to say to either.

Huh?  Don't understand what you're asking here.

Also, if he hasn't tried to kill himself by now, it's probably cry for help bullshit. People who really want to kill themselves will probably try it within a day or two of telling someone about it.

There is a big fat difference between "what I want to do" and "what I am going to do" for a lot of people.  A cry for help isn't bullshit.

(By the way, before you discount me: I've been suicidal; I don't tell people about it until it's over.  People being abusive with threats of suicide is a real thing, but you can't just discount everyone who tells you they're in trouble)

[Scoops Novel]

I am asking for some advice on how to talk to depressed and suicidal people, and am frankly amazed that i was interrogated on this. If you're going to say "but", give a bloody well fleshed out answer (never mind, I've already sponken to someone about this. I'll try to improve it). I'd appreciate any and all help.

[Vector]

Yeah, I've had a consistently hard time figuring out what your posts refer to.  That may just be me accustomed to a particular style of internet communication, but hey whatever.  You often don't give us a topic sentence or tell us exactly what you're referring to.  Were you referring to recent posts about therapists?  The thread title?  It's impossible to tell.

Uh... as far as your question goes, I don't think I have any particular advice.

[k33n]

He's already been taking therapy.

He told me that he's already hired professional therapists, even christian ones.

My alarm bells are ringing very loudly if he is going to a self professed christian therapist. Someone who calls themselves that certainly has a bunk degree and should be nowhere near the mentally ill.

Just because in your particular experience, a religious therapy didn't work does not mean that religious therapy is not a good match for any patient

In the same way a Faith Healer is good for some people's heart disease.

Religious therapy is a terrible match for any patients, no matter what. Nonsense superstition has no place in medicine, especially with someone who may be having a life or death crisis. It could very well make it worse. You don't pollute medicine that way.

[Vector]

You're a very silly person if you think that irrational thought patterns are always best fought with rational answers.

[geronimo]

You're a very silly person if you think that irrational thought patterns are always best fought with rational answers.

+1

[k33n]

You're a very silly person if you think that irrational thought patterns are always best fought with rational answers.

Because irrationality is the best solution for irrational thought patterns?

Delusions don't cure delusions, and while rational answers don't necessarily help mental illness, rational methods do.

[Vector]

Yeah, I'm going to ask you something really fast.

Have you ever been mentally ill?

[k33n]

Yeah, I'm going to ask you something really fast.

Have you ever been mentally ill?

There is mental illness in my family, not that it is at all relevant to his conversation. Mental illness is a medical condition, and must be treated as such.

[Vector]

. . . So basically it sounds like you're saying

a. religious people are incapable of being rational

b. people of a particular religion would not benefit from people who share their mindset

If you think atheists would benefit from seeing atheists, then perhaps you can understand why religious folks would benefit from seeing religious folks.

And, you know, the reason why I ask about mental illness is because it feels like you've got no perspective on what that situation is like and what can be needed.  Some people need medecine.  Other people need talk therapy and empathy, which is essentially an entrance into another person's subjective experience.  Objectivity, on the other hand, is the negation of subjective experience.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

[k33n]

. . . So basically it sounds like you're saying

a. religious people are incapable of being rational

b. people of a particular religion would not benefit from people who share their mindset

If you think atheists would benefit from seeing atheists, then perhaps you can understand why religious folks would benefit from seeing religious folks.

And, you know, the reason why I ask about mental illness is because it feels like you've got no perspective on what that situation is like and what can be needed.  Some people need medecine.  Other people need talk therapy and empathy, which is essentially an entrance into another person's subjective experience.  Objectivity, on the other hand, is the negation of subjective experience.

Do you see where I'm coming from?

I'm using the term medicine meaning the applied sciences of health care. Therapists and psychiatrists are aspects of this field.

It would be reprehensible to hire a surgeon if his only qualification was seminary school, and is equally so for a therapist. This is especially true for someone who is having a potentially life threatening illness, whether suicidal depression or a heart transplant.

Religion has no business in this sphere. It matters not if you are a Zeusist, Satanist, Deist, Egg-worshiper, or Atheist. Any therapist ( or surgeon, or pharmacist etc.) that incorporates faith systems into his or her practice is dangerously incompetent.