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[Scoops Novel]

All right, I'll give him a shot.

[Doomblade187]

I am a bit lost here. Minimal wage is some sort of regulation? There is always a way to employ workers in a gray/black way so why to bother? I've just recently seen some euronews report about Italy, which is currently having like 40% of job market to be "unnoficial" (yeah, fuck TV). I am pretty sure that in my country it's nothing better and I wouldnt be surprised that USA is guiltly here. I mean, if you not a subject for welfare for whatever reason you going to work for any amounts of money that will feed you of.

Lets see a bigger picture. I am pretty sure, that outsourcing jobs in China/India/Africa is what fucking up wages currently. I really really dislike that kind of approach, we outsource our economy to countries that historically never wanted to become something big and prosperous. Leave them alone, leave them die in poverty if thats their agenda. I couldnt care less about starving kids in Africa.

Actually, they tend to want to become big and prosperous, especially with globalization, and we can reign in outsourcing by reducing the cost of business here in the states.

[gogis]

I am a bit lost here. Minimal wage is some sort of regulation? There is always a way to employ workers in a gray/black way so why to bother? I've just recently seen some euronews report about Italy, which is currently having like 40% of job market to be "unnoficial" (yeah, fuck TV). I am pretty sure that in my country it's nothing better and I wouldnt be surprised that USA is guiltly here. I mean, if you not a subject for welfare for whatever reason you going to work for any amounts of money that will feed you of.

Lets see a bigger picture. I am pretty sure, that outsourcing jobs in China/India/Africa is what fucking up wages currently. I really really dislike that kind of approach, we outsource our economy to countries that historically never wanted to become something big and prosperous. Leave them alone, leave them die in poverty if thats their agenda. I couldnt care less about starving kids in Africa.

Actually, they tend to want to become big and prosperous, especially with globalization, and we can reign in outsourcing by reducing the cost of business here in the states.

This way you unemploy YOUR citizens for a profit of business shareholders. I dont see positives.

[Doomblade187]

I am a bit lost here. Minimal wage is some sort of regulation? There is always a way to employ workers in a gray/black way so why to bother? I've just recently seen some euronews report about Italy, which is currently having like 40% of job market to be "unnoficial" (yeah, fuck TV). I am pretty sure that in my country it's nothing better and I wouldnt be surprised that USA is guiltly here. I mean, if you not a subject for welfare for whatever reason you going to work for any amounts of money that will feed you of.

Lets see a bigger picture. I am pretty sure, that outsourcing jobs in China/India/Africa is what fucking up wages currently. I really really dislike that kind of approach, we outsource our economy to countries that historically never wanted to become something big and prosperous. Leave them alone, leave them die in poverty if thats their agenda. I couldnt care less about starving kids in Africa.

Actually, they tend to want to become big and prosperous, especially with globalization, and we can reign in outsourcing by reducing the cost of business here in the states.

This way you unemploy YOUR citizen for a profit of business shareholders. I dont see positives.

... Wha? You're not making sense here. What I'm saying is that by reducing the cost of business (which drives them overseas for some stuff), when we may be able to get some jobs back, though many are most likely staying overseas.

[gogis]

I am a bit lost here. Minimal wage is some sort of regulation? There is always a way to employ workers in a gray/black way so why to bother? I've just recently seen some euronews report about Italy, which is currently having like 40% of job market to be "unnoficial" (yeah, fuck TV). I am pretty sure that in my country it's nothing better and I wouldnt be surprised that USA is guiltly here. I mean, if you not a subject for welfare for whatever reason you going to work for any amounts of money that will feed you of.

Lets see a bigger picture. I am pretty sure, that outsourcing jobs in China/India/Africa is what fucking up wages currently. I really really dislike that kind of approach, we outsource our economy to countries that historically never wanted to become something big and prosperous. Leave them alone, leave them die in poverty if thats their agenda. I couldnt care less about starving kids in Africa.

Actually, they tend to want to become big and prosperous, especially with globalization, and we can reign in outsourcing by reducing the cost of business here in the states.

This way you unemploy YOUR citizen for a profit of business shareholders. I dont see positives.

... Wha? You're not making sense here. What I'm saying is that by reducing the cost of business (which drives them overseas for some stuff), when we may be able to get some jobs back, though many are most likely staying overseas.

No, thats makes alot of sense. Reduced cost of business is always going to pocket of shareholders, what you expect here? If I am a shareholder I would demand this money as my dividends, why should I care about creating some new extra jobs?

[misko27]

Did you just say there are countries that don't want o be big and prosperous? I think I sorta want to punch you right now.

And China is the world's second largest economy, and they are moving towards a service economy. India is getting fairly large too. And Brazil.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Right, well im not sure where the current concensus stands on the minimum wage argument, but I would like to say this: It has gone up, but im not sure if it is more or less than what it has been historically relative to inflation. Having said that it IS there to ensure a standard of living, that doesn't have to be a good one, unfortunately (Im a capitalist btw, probably relevant!) if we were to raise minimum wage to a level rivalling that of a "middle-class income" (im not sure what people consider middle-class though) i'm relatively sure that would cause a somewhat large amount of inflation, which isn't really good for anyone on an average day. Now i'm not against raising the minimum wage, but i'm a bit wary as to what will it might cause. I'd also like to say that I think unregulated business (for the most part) is best business, I support Laissez-Faire, and although I don't think raising minimum wage is getting "too involved", the government only needs to protect our right to the pursuit of happiness (this is obviously from an American standpoint, I really don't know about other kinds of governmental idealogies) not hand people happiness. Happiness costs alot of money and we're already in deep dept. I just think raising the minimum wage right now might be a step in the wrong direction however large or small of step that is.

[Doomblade187]

Right, well im not sure where the current concensus stands on the minimum wage argument, but I would like to say this: It has gone up, but im not sure if it is more or less than what it has been historically relative to inflation. Having said that it IS there to ensure a standard of living, that doesn't have to be a good one, unfortunately (Im a capitalist btw, probably relevant!) if we were to raise minimum wage to a level rivalling that of a "middle-class income" (im not sure what people consider middle-class though) i'm relatively sure that would cause a somewhat large amount of inflation, which isn't really good for anyone on an average day. Now i'm not against raising the minimum wage, but i'm a bit wary as to what will it might cause. I'd also like to say that I think unregulated business (for the most part) is best business, I support Laissez-Faire, and although I don't think raising minimum wage is getting "too involved", the government only needs to protect our right to the pursuit of happiness (this is obviously from an American standpoint, I really don't know about other kinds of governmental idealogies) not hand people happiness. Happiness costs alot of money and we're already in deep dept. I just think raising the minimum wage right now might be a step in the wrong direction however large or small of step that is.

Yeah, really any action that might hurt the economy in a major way isn't the best idea right now, with our 16+ trillion of debt.

[Nadaka]

The increase in minimum wage has been VASTLY lower than the inflation rate. Particularly if you use an inflation rate that focuses on low end essentials like rent/transportation/utilities/food/medical without accounting for the low rise in price for luxury goods (or the dropping price for electronics).

[gogis]

Did you just say there are countries that don't want o be big and prosperous? I think I sorta want to punch you right now.

And China is the world's second largest economy, and they are moving towards a service economy. India is getting fairly large too. And Brazil.

I've been living in India for 8 months. Amount of people that simply doesnt want to work (I am not even putting `hard` here) for whatever reason is staggering. Please, travel world, live there for prolonged period of time to understand mentality before throwing punches.
I've spoken to people living in Africa for 1+ years. No, they don't want to be prosperous in `our` meaning. Not at all.

Thats also why I am against idea of employing democracy everywhere. I am not very old, but I've been `there` and you never lose a feeling that you speak with people from other galaxy

[Aseaheru]

I am a bit lost here. Minimal wage is some sort of regulation? There is always a way to employ workers in a gray/black way so why to bother? I've just recently seen some euronews report about Italy, which is currently having like 40% of job market to be "unnoficial" (yeah, fuck TV). I am pretty sure that in my country it's nothing better and I wouldnt be surprised that USA is guiltly here. I mean, if you not a subject for welfare for whatever reason you going to work for any amounts of money that will feed you of.

Lets see a bigger picture. I am pretty sure, that outsourcing jobs in China/India/Africa is what fucking up wages currently. I really really dislike that kind of approach, we outsource our economy to countries that historically never wanted to become something big and prosperous. Leave them alone, leave them die in poverty if thats their agenda. I couldnt care less about starving kids in Africa.

I think i know who watches Fox.


And really? China and India where REPEATEDLY the superpower.

[gogis]

And really? China and India where REPEATEDLY the superpower.

I have no idea what offending I said. As countries they are. As citizen, you don't want be theirs. I dont watch Fox, check my profile.

[jhxmt]

No, they don't want to be prosperous in `our` meaning. Not at all.

Thats also why I am against idea of employing democracy everywhere. I am not very old, but I've been `there` and you never lose a feeling that you speak with people from other galaxy

So...democracy is good, except when the people who want it don't agree with you?

I think you may have misunderstood democracy.

[gogis]

No, they don't want to be prosperous in `our` meaning. Not at all.

Thats also why I am against idea of employing democracy everywhere. I am not very old, but I've been `there` and you never lose a feeling that you speak with people from other galaxy

So...democracy is good, except when the people who want it don't agree with you?

I think you may have misunderstood democracy.

Let's say it's my bad english. I meant some countries is in a no fucking state to embrace it. You know, I living under it, why should I demean it? Democracy is good, I've never said opposite.

[Aseaheru]

I've been living in India for 8 months. Amount of people that simply doesnt want to work (I am not even putting `hard` here) for whatever reason is staggering. Please, travel world, live there for prolonged period of time to understand mentality before throwing punches.
I've spoken to people living in Africa for 1+ years. No, they don't want to be prosperous in `our` meaning. Not at all.

Is that not like saying all Germans during WWII where supporters of Hitler?
or that all Russians supported Stalin?
Or all Americans are crazy morons?