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[MaximumZero]

Max, there are lots of families in the US where the non-adult children work to support the family with their money.

Ok that is the other thing you need then. Subsidize low income families so that this isn't a major factor.

At the rate we're going now, it's looking like the entire wellfare system we have needs to be rebuilt from step 1.

Pretty much, yeah.

[GreatJustice]

In Ontario, there's something called "Student wage" that's a fair bit lower than minimum wage. There's one in BC too as I recall, and probably most other provinces.

Lower than the $7.25 wage?
Wait, why is it exactly $7.25? Seems very round. We get ours adjusted annually to match the strength of the dollar, you guys get the same, right? Otherwise not only are you getting fucked, but getting fucked progressively harder with each year.

Ontario is a Canadian province, guy.

Anyhow, the minimum wage is $10.25, but living beside the US I'd estimate that everything in the States is ~30% cheaper than in Canada, with some things being cheaper than that (eg. milk is something like a quarter of the price in Detroit compared to here, everything at McDonalds is a size smaller for the same price, the "five dollar footlong" is more like ten dollars, etc). So functionally, its about the same. Ontario has a student wage of $9.60, which is a fair bit lower and is used by most of the local restaurants and so on.

It's an okay system, but its still not beneficial. At least around here, it means getting an actual "job" as a student, even with the lower wage, is tricky. A lot comes down to being pals with the guy who owns the furniture store/restaurant/gas station, and whoop-dee-doo, you have a job! Otherwise, you either have to be lucky with applications to get in in the first place, or you don't get a job for a while. There's always seasonal farm work in the county, though, but that's paid differently than most work so there isn't really a minimum wage for a lot of it.

Again, I'd much prefer having an easy time getting an entry level $3 job for a while and then proving I'm not a lazy bum and getting a raise over having to go through a load of pain to get a 9$ student wage job.

[Zrk2]

All the studies I've seen say that raising the minimum wage wouldn't increase unemployment or cause inflation, so I think you guys should go for it.

[Sheb]

Except in a lots of case, people get stuck with minimum wages job for years and years.

But yeah, I'm kinda surprised at how primitive the US are in some aspects.

[Reelya]

Does the US have different minimum wages per age bracket? For example, the minimum wage for somebody under sixteen in Australia is $5.87.
For anybody twenty or over it is $15.59, and there are several brackets in between those two figures.

Could somebody over the age of twenty be working for less than $10 an hour?

Don't forget apprenticeships, those allow Australian employers to get noobs cheaper than the nominal minimum wage, and the apprentice gets a nationally accredited qualification (there are formal classes provided free for the apprentices) + experience.

Most of the noted problems associated with raising minimum wage can be solved by creating special programs to encourage employers to train people, in exchange for leeway with wages.

Under 16s have the least need for it. The assumption is that they either have parents paying for their food and shelter, or they are already on some sort of benifit scheme. That $5 an hour goes towards buying nerf guns and candy.

Max, there are lots of families in the US where the non-adult children work to support the family with their money.

so basically you're saying you're peasants over there? That's completely unheard of in Australia.

[Aseaheru]

In Ontario, there's something called "Student wage" that's a fair bit lower than minimum wage. There's one in BC too as I recall, and probably most other provinces.

Lower than the $7.25 wage?
Wait, why is it exactly $7.25? Seems very round. We get ours adjusted annually to match the strength of the dollar, you guys get the same, right? Otherwise not only are you getting fucked, but getting fucked progressively harder with each year.

Ontario is a Canadian province, guy.

Anyhow, the minimum wage is $10.25, but living beside the US I'd estimate that everything in the States is ~30% cheaper than in Canada, with some things being cheaper than that (eg. milk is something like a quarter of the price in Detroit compared to here, everything at McDonalds is a size smaller for the same price, the "five dollar footlong" is more like ten dollars, etc). So functionally, its about the same. Ontario has a student wage of $9.60, which is a fair bit lower and is used by most of the local restaurants and so on.

It's an okay system, but its still not beneficial. At least around here, it means getting an actual "job" as a student, even with the lower wage, is tricky. A lot comes down to being pals with the guy who owns the furniture store/restaurant/gas station, and whoop-dee-doo, you have a job! Otherwise, you either have to be lucky with applications to get in in the first place, or you don't get a job for a while. There's always seasonal farm work in the county, though, but that's paid differently than most work so there isn't really a minimum wage for a lot of it.

Again, I'd much prefer having an easy time getting an entry level $3 job for a while and then proving I'm not a lazy bum and getting a raise over having to go through a load of pain to get a 9$ student wage job.

You get better things for your money. our milk has been shown to be really bad for development as an interest.
Minimum wage is $7.25 unless you are a: farmworker, waiter, illegal person, or a newspaper person. also street salesmen and similar..

[Mr. Palau]

Sorry so late to respond.

I don't think raising the minimum wage would actually increase outsourcing that much, in the case of the US most minimum wage jobs are in the service sector, in restaurants and other enterprises that are resistant to outsourcing. Some manufacturing jobs would leave, but most of those would pay more than minimum wage already.

On the topic of urban vs. rural minimum wage, I think you could lessen the effects of commuting if you used a 50 diameter circle around the center of a city to determine the minimum wage. You have to include the suburbs because we do not want to set the minimum wage for Manhattan based on people living in midtown or 7th avenue.

Also about being able to support a family with one income earner on minimum wage, I originally had the rates set for one person, but that ended up with dual income earning families at minimum wage being solid middle-high earners in some areas, and being 50,000$ above the poverty level. Which means I would really be turning the poor into entirely middle class, way too fast. Also a minimum wage should provide for enough to live suitably above poverty, not provide a middle class lifestyle. That's why I suggested single income earners just get a bigger welfare check instead. On the topic of babysitters, I would support universal daycare, until the kids are ready to go to school, and from there an option to just have some of the teachers watch the kids until the parents get out.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Under 16s have the least need for it. The assumption is that they either have parents paying for their food and shelter, or they are already on some sort of benifit scheme. That $5 an hour goes towards buying nerf guns and candy.

Max, there are lots of families in the US where the non-adult children work to support the family with their money.

so basically you're saying you're peasants over there? That's completely unheard of in Australia.

That's rather rude.

In any case, I'm hardly going to believe that you don't have poor families in Australia, and that they don't have their children work to increase their family income.

[Aseaheru]

Under 16s have the least need for it. The assumption is that they either have parents paying for their food and shelter, or they are already on some sort of benifit scheme. That $5 an hour goes towards buying nerf guns and candy.

Max, there are lots of families in the US where the non-adult children work to support the family with their money.

so basically you're saying you're peasants over there? That's completely unheard of in Australia.

That's rather rude.

In any case, I'm hardly going to believe that you don't have poor families in Australia, and that they don't have their children work to increase their family income.

I have talked to people in Australia who do that...

[GreatJustice]

In Ontario, there's something called "Student wage" that's a fair bit lower than minimum wage. There's one in BC too as I recall, and probably most other provinces.

Lower than the $7.25 wage?
Wait, why is it exactly $7.25? Seems very round. We get ours adjusted annually to match the strength of the dollar, you guys get the same, right? Otherwise not only are you getting fucked, but getting fucked progressively harder with each year.

Ontario is a Canadian province, guy.

Anyhow, the minimum wage is $10.25, but living beside the US I'd estimate that everything in the States is ~30% cheaper than in Canada, with some things being cheaper than that (eg. milk is something like a quarter of the price in Detroit compared to here, everything at McDonalds is a size smaller for the same price, the "five dollar footlong" is more like ten dollars, etc). So functionally, its about the same. Ontario has a student wage of $9.60, which is a fair bit lower and is used by most of the local restaurants and so on.

It's an okay system, but its still not beneficial. At least around here, it means getting an actual "job" as a student, even with the lower wage, is tricky. A lot comes down to being pals with the guy who owns the furniture store/restaurant/gas station, and whoop-dee-doo, you have a job! Otherwise, you either have to be lucky with applications to get in in the first place, or you don't get a job for a while. There's always seasonal farm work in the county, though, but that's paid differently than most work so there isn't really a minimum wage for a lot of it.

Again, I'd much prefer having an easy time getting an entry level $3 job for a while and then proving I'm not a lazy bum and getting a raise over having to go through a load of pain to get a 9$ student wage job.

You get better things for your money. our milk has been shown to be really bad for development as an interest.
Minimum wage is $7.25 unless you are a: farmworker, waiter, illegal person, or a newspaper person. also street salesmen and similar..

Americans get more variety though, and even their "luxury milk" would cost less than ours. Also, bagged milk sucks, and in practical terms its what you get unless you pay an extortionate premium (in Ontario, mind). For reference, a 2L carton is somewhere in the ballpark of $3.50 while a 4L bag is about $4.50. See the problem?

EDIT: Beats being British, though. Besides costs (Which, going from video game prices at least, are even higher than ours), you have to buy a TV license. I wish I were making that up. Hell, if you get a laptop and you watch TV from it, you need to buy a licensing fee for it. They even have really goddamn creepy "public service announcement" pictures too:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Aseaheru]

Its a bit cheeper.
1 gallon = about 3.4 L, right?

[10ebbor10]

3.7 actually.

[GreatJustice]

Its a bit cheeper.
1 gallon = about 3.4 L, right?

More like 3.8, but yeah.

Oh, and snarky Australians (who I've seen bragging all over the internet recently for some reason or another), please cut it out. I was curious about the "cost of living" in countries, and found a website that would appear to be fairly well respected that provides such info. Anyway,

Consumer Prices in Canada are 26.66% lower than in Australia
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Canada are 33.34% lower than in Australia
Rent Prices in Canada are 46.54% lower than in Australia
Restaurant Prices in Canada are 27.42% lower than in Australia
Groceries Prices in Canada are 21.79% lower than in Australia
Local Purchasing Power in Canada is 6.99% higher than in Australia

That's a really goddamn big difference, especially considering how big the difference is between Canada and the US. The only things noticeably cheaper in Australia are rice and... milk. Yeah, that's kind of a reoccurring theme here.

[gogis]

I am a bit lost here. Minimal wage is some sort of regulation? There is always a way to employ workers in a gray/black way so why to bother? I've just recently seen some euronews report about Italy, which is currently having like 40% of job market to be "unnoficial" (yeah, fuck TV). I am pretty sure that in my country it's nothing better and I wouldnt be surprised that USA is guiltly here. I mean, if you not a subject for welfare for whatever reason you going to work for any amounts of money that will feed you of.

Lets see a bigger picture. I am pretty sure, that outsourcing jobs in China/India/Africa is what fucking up wages currently. I really really dislike that kind of approach, we outsource our economy to countries that historically never wanted to become something big and prosperous. Leave them alone, leave them die in poverty if thats their agenda. I couldnt care less about starving kids in Africa.

[Scoops Novel]

Banhammer descending!