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[Isdar]

[quote author=Damiac link=topic=123140.msg4840476#msg4840476 date=1387205828
Generally though, I try to drag a parapenned victim into the nearest maint hallway, and welder his face in till he dies.  Then you need to come up with a plan to dispose of the body. I've always liked tossing them into space, rather than the easier (and lamer) C4 to gib the corpse.
[/quote]
Their really isn't much of a difference between C4-ing the corpse and chucking it into space, unless the corpse manages to get back to the station due to randomized space.

[Tjoh]

My usual tactic to kill my target is to make a bomb and blow them and their surroundings to kingdom come, but that time I wanted to try something different. And since having the target scream over the radio that he's getting whacked is less than desirable, I took the golden opportunity to pen him. I was going to throw him into space, but I realised that my flamethrower could get the work done quicker.
Then I "loaned" a spacesuit, dragged his corpse into space and blew it to gibs with his own C4 (it was a double agent round).
I don't actually use the parapen often, and I don't really know how to make sure that my target can't scream and the damned AI won't be looking.

By the way, if you turn off an APC, will that deactivate the cameras in the affected area too?

[Tjoh]

Ah. Such a shame.

[miauw62]

You can hack cameras you know.

And there are a bunch of "golden oppurtunities" to pen somebody. aka whenever they're alone. The parapen is a HORRIBLE traitor item.

[Damiac]

You should clarify that Miauw. It's horrible in that it's OP as hell, and just way the fuck too effective. Horribly game breaking, but an excellent tool.

I think that the parapen should be modified to make it not sneaky.

In other words, it should work as it does currently, except:
When you stab someone, they should see "You feel a tiny prick. You start to feel woozy"
They should have 10 seconds of paralysis where they can still talk. So they can yell "X just drugged me with a pen!"
Then normal effect takes place.

That way, it stays the outrageous GG no RE tool it is now, except that you actually have to do a little more work.


And yes, I know tossing someone into space is practically the same as gibbing.  But then at least there's the tiny chance of someone stumbling onto the corpse.

Lately I haven't even been spacing them though, just hiding them in lockers or something. 

[miauw62]

Damiac. You do realize that that'd remove the primary fucking use of the parapen right? To prevent your victim from screaming over the radio?

The parapen is a horrible item gameplay-wise. I don't care if it's a symptom of the system, it's just bad.

[Tjoh]

What about a drug pen that either slurs the victims' speech or makes them mute?

[Iceblaster]

Hypospray with Mindbreaker

Anyway, on a more serious note, I have used them, yes, but I have tried to get away from it.

On ways to subdue your guy without someone noticing, why not invite them to the mining asteroid, because on the 'Roid, nobody will hear you scream.

Hehehe

[Ivan Issaccs]

Honestly that would work for me, para-pen instead being loaded with say 15 units of chloral and 15 of sleeping toxins especially if they removed the tiny prick message.
There is nothing more frustrating than those fucks who use para-pen/c4 and then do nothing else at all for the rest of the round. I don't mind being killed so much except when the people who did so only do that and then do nothing to progress the round in any interesting fashion.

[Damiac]

Damiac. You do realize that that'd remove the primary fucking use of the parapen right? To prevent your victim from screaming over the radio?

The parapen is a horrible item gameplay-wise. I don't care if it's a symptom of the system, it's just bad.

Yeah. I think a 3 point guaranteed ko is good enough, without it also being 100% silent, guaranteed.  I'd say the primary purpose is the KO, with the noiseless aspect being a way the hell too good bonus.

If you want to take the easy way out by using the parapen, then maybe you should have to deal with some noise.

I don't understand what you're saying.  The parapen is a horrible item gameplay-wise.  No self respecting traitor should use it.

So ok, you think the parapen is just too effective then, right?

So I propose to leave it just as effective in it's primary role, instantly incapacitating your victim, but to make it somewhat... you know... interesting, let the victim yell out over the radio.

This way, the traitor has to disguise himself, shut off comms, or find some other way out of being arrested. 

Or I guess you can argue that it's too good and nobody should ever use it and nobody should ever change it.  I was just thinking... instead of just bitching about it we could try to fix it...

Don't use the parapen. It's the lamest traitor item. If you're not good enough at tatoring to not use the parapen, don't tator.

Insisting on keeping something, then insisting nobody should ever use it is a great example of the worst kind of game design. 

Honestly that would work for me, para-pen instead being loaded with say 15 units of chloral and 15 of sleeping toxins especially if they removed the tiny prick message.
There is nothing more frustrating than those fucks who use para-pen/c4 and then do nothing else at all for the rest of the round. I don't mind being killed so much except when the people who did so only do that and then do nothing to progress the round in any interesting fashion.

Exactly!

Oh and while we're at it... can we just take out the damn spec ops crates? Traitoring is already easy as hell, an infinite supply of parapens is really unnecessary...

[miauw62]

I didn't insist on keeping the parapen. It should just go.

And it's not an example of bad game design, it's an example of hypocrisy.

The main part of the parapen is the silencing, because ";HELP X IS KILLING ME IN LOCATION!"
>x is now screwed over, sec is going to location.
>ggnore.

[Damiac]

No, not X is killing me, X just stabbed me and I don't feel so good in location A.
Then X drags Y away to location B and kills him.
Sec meanwhile is over at location A, but they can dust for prints or something.


Or, X had a disguise on when he stabbed Y.
Or, X disabled the radio before he stabbed Y.
Or, X finds a way to make Y seem unreliable.
Or X puts on a disguise after stabbing Y.
Or X steals Y's identity and says ";Oh, nevermind, he was just being an ass".

This leads to interesting gameplay, instead of "You feel a tiny prick" GGNORE

[Hanslanda]

I didn't insist on keeping the parapen. It should just go.

And it's not an example of bad game design, it's an example of hypocrisy.

The main part of the parapen is the silencing, because ";HELP X IS KILLING ME IN LOCATION!"
>x is now screwed over, sec is going to location.
>ggnore.

Except usually security is just one to five people, and a competent traitor with a stun weapon can kill them all if need be. Not to mention, you should be MOVING if you get outed. A moving target is harder to hit.

I only ever use the parapen to kidnap people anyways. If I'm going to kill them, I usually will parapen them, drag them into an area they don't have access, plant a syndicate bomb, screwdriver it open, and leave a wirecutter on the ground. Then I stun them, uncuff them, and quickly turn on the bomb to a 60 second timer. Then you just sit outside the room with a cup of coffee and watch the show. They have a good chance to survive, and also you have a good chance to win. This is what antag is about. It's about making the round INTERESTING. You're more like a GM in DnD than a player once you get antagonist status. An antag that just quietly does their objectives than does nothing else the rest of the game is a shitty antag.

[Aseaheru]

I use the parapen because I just dont like killing.
If I gotta kill I am going to make dabm shure they get back into the round somehow.

[Damiac]

On a semi related note, if I get a murder objective, does it count if I borg my target?

That way they can stay in the round, and I can have a traitorborgbro.  Metagrudging optional.

My suggestion to the parapen was just that before the ko status where you can't do anything, you get 10 seconds where you can't do anything except scream bloody murder into the radio. 

So really the antag plays it the same way, they parapen someone, then drag him off.  The only difference is now the crew KNOWS something happened to his target, and depending on whether he's disguised himself, the crew may know who (supposedly) did it.
 
Meaning nobody gets silently taken out midround by an antag who then does nothing else all round, at least, not via parapen.

You make a valid point about sec, and that's a big issue on urist mc station. Honestly when there actually is security I'm always totally shocked, and usually get busted because I left fingerprints or something, because I am just so used to there being no security at all.