Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Who would win?

Gandalf the White
- 46 (79.3%)
Dumbledore
- 10 (17.2%)
tie
- 2 (3.4%)

Total Members Voted: 58


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10

Author Topic: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore  (Read 14161 times)

Xantalos

  • Bay Watcher
  • Your Friendly Salvation
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2013, 03:25:25 am »

At the very least a supernatural fear-inducing ability.

Unless Dumbledore is an atheist, in which case Gandalf ceases to exist.
Eeeh...
Keep in mind I'm not an expert or anything, just bored, so don't expect a high quality of argument.
Gandalf is a Maiar, essentially a member of an order of beings who created the LOTR universe over a guy singing a different song than God. The entire history of Middle-Earth is just a debate to these guys.
So yeah.
Logged
Sig! Onol
Quote from: BFEL
XANTALOS, THE KARATEBOMINATION
Quote from: Toaster
((The Xantalos Die: [1, 1, 1, 6, 6, 6]))

Cheeetar

  • Bay Watcher
  • Spaceghost Perpetrator
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2013, 03:28:26 am »

At the very least a supernatural fear-inducing ability.

Unless Dumbledore is an atheist, in which case Gandalf ceases to exist.
Eeeh...
Keep in mind I'm not an expert or anything, just bored, so don't expect a high quality of argument.
Gandalf is a Maiar, essentially a member of an order of beings who created the LOTR universe over a guy singing a different song than God. The entire history of Middle-Earth is just a debate to these guys.
So yeah.

And that means he can defeat Dumbledore how, exactly?
Logged
I've played some mafia.

Most of the time when someone is described as politically correct they are simply correct.

Heron TSG

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Seal Goddess
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2013, 03:29:36 am »

All this talk about Avada Kedavra has so far forgotten that a significant portion of the named targets of the spell survived its effect. Namely Harry Potter. Why? Love. The most powerful magic of all.

I'm pretty sure that Gandalf can whip up some sweet lovin' from somewhere.
Logged

Est Sularus Oth Mithas
The Artist Formerly Known as Barbarossa TSG

PanH

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2013, 03:32:35 am »


GandalfxElrond = Love
Logged

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2013, 03:34:08 am »

Look... how may I put this

Titles don't mean anything. words like "god" or "diety" doesn't mean much setting to setting.

For example Raiden from Mortal Kombat is a diety and his maximum power output is the power of a nuclear bomb (which can kill him).

Yet in Dragon Ball Z that is nothing. Raiden would be uttarly trumped by the weakest of the weak characters (Krillin would easily beat up Raiden).

Just because Gandalf is a being of grand importance and power in LOTR it doesn't mean that the very same power transferred to another setting is just as powerful.

In the same way that Dumbledor being the "most powerful wizard in existance" would probably mean nothing in the anime Fairytale (though his kill spell is still pretty powerful, but that is pretty much it) where magic spells can destroy several city blocks, something Dumbledor would struggle to do.

You have to look at characters STRICTLY in what they can and cannot do.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 03:35:55 am by Neonivek »
Logged

Xantalos

  • Bay Watcher
  • Your Friendly Salvation
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2013, 03:37:37 am »


GandalfxElrond = Love
DON'T BRING THAT UP FOR THE LOVE OF EÄ
Logged
Sig! Onol
Quote from: BFEL
XANTALOS, THE KARATEBOMINATION
Quote from: Toaster
((The Xantalos Die: [1, 1, 1, 6, 6, 6]))

PanH

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2013, 03:40:59 am »

And that means he can defeat Dumbledore how, exactly?
If Gandalf doesn't have the benefits implied by being a Maiar, then I guess Dumbledore can only use spells that is written he use. Hey, maybe he can't Avada Kedavra (especially considering the hate thing, Dumbledore isn't really hateful, and not over any white robe wearing old man).

GandalfxElrond = Love
DON'T BRING THAT UP FOR THE LOVE OF EÄ
Too late ! It's already shipped for the Grey Havens !
Logged

Glowcat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2013, 03:44:44 am »

Eeeh...
Keep in mind I'm not an expert or anything, just bored, so don't expect a high quality of argument.
Gandalf is a Maiar, essentially a member of an order of beings who created the LOTR universe over a guy singing a different song than God. The entire history of Middle-Earth is just a debate to these guys.
So yeah.

This was meant for Cheetar, right? My tongue-in-cheek answer wasn't exactly relevant, I think, though I could be wrong.

In case I was being dragged into this I'm pretty much with Cheetar in that "god" is a loaded word that doesn't mean much without proper context. While Gandalf and others like Saruman helped shape the world they don't seem to possess power that seems unusual for any other setting's wizards, at least during the time period of LotR.

All this talk about Avada Kedavra has so far forgotten that a significant portion of the named targets of the spell survived its effect. Namely Harry Potter. Why? Love. The most powerful magic of all.

I'm pretty sure that Gandalf can whip up some sweet lovin' from somewhere.

I can see it now... Gandalf is struck by the Avada Kedavra curse but as the light of life is about to escape from his eyes they meet with his opponent whose features soften as he realizes his mistake in striking down a fellow noble soul and, indeed, a kindred spirit. Truly recognizing one another for the first time Gandalf is rescued from his fate by true love and the two ancient wizards become lifelong partners.

Obviously Gandalf is played by Ian McKellen in this.

Logged
Totally a weretrain. Very much trains!
I'm going to steamroll this house.

Xantalos

  • Bay Watcher
  • Your Friendly Salvation
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2013, 03:48:07 am »

The problem with this debate is that about 90% of Gandalf's powers are just hinted at, or referenced in some obscure book that no one has read, or the description is so poetic that you have no idea what happened.
Logged
Sig! Onol
Quote from: BFEL
XANTALOS, THE KARATEBOMINATION
Quote from: Toaster
((The Xantalos Die: [1, 1, 1, 6, 6, 6]))

Glowcat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2013, 04:03:09 am »

The problem with this debate is that about 90% of Gandalf's powers are just hinted at, or referenced in some obscure book that no one has read, or the description is so poetic that you have no idea what happened.

That and the power of LoTR characters seems to shift a lot. I mean... just look at Saruman before and after Orthanc fell.
Logged
Totally a weretrain. Very much trains!
I'm going to steamroll this house.

lemon10

  • Bay Watcher
  • Citrus Master
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2013, 04:36:16 am »

That was intentional, when he was driven from Orthanc his staff (and his power) was broken.

And mariars aren't really that strong. They are angels and not on the levels of gods at all. They are quite a bit more powerful then a regular mortal, but not unbeatable.
Logged
And with a mighty leap, the evil Conservative flies through the window, escaping our heroes once again!
Because the solution to not being able to control your dakka is MOAR DAKKA.

That's it. We've finally crossed over and become the nation of Da Orky Boyz.

SalmonGod

  • Bay Watcher
  • Nyarrr
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2013, 05:44:29 am »

As quite the Tolkien fan I have to say... Dumbledore would win, simply because magic is portrayed as far, far more evocative in that world than in Arda.  Tolkien's descriptions of magic are almost always subtle in nature.  There are very, very few examples of magic power manifesting in a spontaneous fashion.  Rowling's descriptions of magic are a couple words, a flick of the wand, and something happens.  On that basis alone, it's hard for me to imagine how Gandalf would fight Dumbledore, unless the encounter began in melee range.

Also, maiar didn't participate in the creation of Arda.  They may have witnessed it, but I'm pretty sure only the Valar took part in the song of creation.  Maiar sort of flocked to the place afterwards, I think.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 05:47:34 am by SalmonGod »
Logged
In the land of twilight, under the moon
We dance for the idiots
As the end will come so soon
In the land of twilight

Maybe people should love for the sake of loving, and not with all of these optimization conditions.

Phmcw

  • Bay Watcher
  • Damn max 500 characters
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2013, 06:34:57 am »

You're all wrong anyway : according to the habits of Dumbledore, an elementary school children would have ended up fighting his fight and winning by pure luck. The defeat actually reinforce Gandalf further or is part of his plan. Duh.
Logged
Quote from: toady

In bug news, the zombies in a necromancer's tower became suspicious after the necromancer failed to age and he fled into the hills.

Glowcat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2013, 06:37:33 am »

That was intentional, when he was driven from Orthanc his staff (and his power) was broken.

And mariars aren't really that strong. They are angels and not on the levels of gods at all. They are quite a bit more powerful then a regular mortal, but not unbeatable.

Well it was just an example. There are also several other instances such as Ungoliant(sp?) being able to take on Melkor at one point, and obviously Sauron was weaker during The Hobbit than he was during LoTR. My main point was that being Maiar doesn't = incredible power by itself.

The only constant I see with them, and this is sort of a big snag with the whole post premise, is that Maiar are immortal spirits who can never actually die. They can be banished to wonder nothingland forever for sure, but otherwise you're not going to see a fight to the literal death unless it's Dumbledore who goes down. It's more like... home wrecking in the case of Gandalf losing.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:40:45 am by Glowcat »
Logged
Totally a weretrain. Very much trains!
I'm going to steamroll this house.

Darvi

  • Bay Watcher
  • <Cript> Darvi is my wifi.
    • View Profile
Re: epic battle to the death : Gandalf the While vs Dumbledore
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2013, 07:03:23 am »

You're all wrong anyway : according to the habits of Dumbledore, an elementary school children would have ended up fighting his fight and winning by pure luck. The defeat actually reinforce Gandalf further or is part of his plan. Duh.
I think I already mentioned in the crossover thread that the two are in cahoots anyways.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 10