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[Eagleon]

I don't think it's silly at all. It comes down to a question of social responsibility over personal freedom, the idea being that the justice system is supposed to be in place not just for victims of crimes but theoretically for their perpetrator's reform and a certain amount of deterrence. This is obviously not the case, as a drug conviction will easily destroy most people's lives for a very long time and we still have people doing them, but there's also the option of decriminalization, which places a much greater emphasis on rehabilitation.

I personally think the state should have the authority to place people into rehab, but also that this should be advised by real science, not anecdotes and the personal opinion and history of the judge.

[foil]

Drugs are great in moderation, soo many varieties for whatever mood/feeling you want.  Better than just sticking to solvent abuse with booze.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RBwoUbvxx0

Good times lol.

[QuakeIV]

People can do whatever they want as long as they don't damage me in some way.

If I were to have children I wouldn't want drugged lunatics trying to get them addicted to something while they are too young to make good judgement calls, and I wouldn't be very happy if people were driving around with their blood diluted 50/50 with psychoactives or whatever.

[GlyphGryph]

Then you'd support ending the drug war, I assume?

Since all evidence points to the fact that it has made drugs MORE available to young kids than their legal-but-not-to-kids equivalents?

[QuakeIV]

Depends on the facts I assume.  I haven't researched that a great deal myself.  If what you say is true then yes I support it coming to an end.

e: Somewhat counterintuitive that shooting at drug salesman would improve availability as a note.

[GlyphGryph]

The reasoning is pretty simple - Legal establishments have something to lose if they sell to minors (Their license, their business, and possible legal sanctions). They can be tracked, regulated, and tested to make sure they are on the up and up.

Drug dealers are already breaking the law. They've got nothing to lose by selling to kids, and there's a lot of money to be made and no one watching them if they do.

Thats why I suspect the stats bear out the way they do - I don't know for sure if that's the whole reason.

[lordcooper]

To be fair, quite a few drug dealers will refuse to do business with people below a certain age, and it doesn't always go down well if they do sell to kids.

I recall a fairly local heroin dealer ending up in intensive care after a few of his co-workers found out that he was selling it to minors.

[Alastar]

All depends on context.

Alcoholism is worse than addiction to most illicit drugs, especially if you factor out issues of legality - beyond possible legal trouble, there's availability in consistent quality at a reasonable price, social acceptance and so on.
Getting solidly drunk isn't particularly pleasant, possibly dangerous and often embarrassing... overuse is bad at any age.
In many respects, a terrible drug... but in moderation, alcohol is benign enough and not particularly harmful to minors. Teaching kids to drink responsibly shouldn't be a major problem.

While a total ban seems overkill, it's harder to encourage responsible use of drugs that one really shouldn't take before one's twenties (for physiological reasons).

Tobacco as a daily drug just seems a lousy deal: Quite addictive, with the desired effect being rather subtle. This makes abuse (with decreased quality of life as well as serious health concerns) the norm rather than the exception - a better candidate for a ban than many others.

[LoSboccacc]

z) my take on it

anything giving an addition is socially questionable, because of the implication of the addiction on the personal life of the addicted.

humans are a violent race to begin with, only quenched by having all our primal urges satisfied. addictions alter this equilibrium a lot, raising the bar at which the addicted feels his primal urges satisfied and tipping the equilibrium between self serving behavior and social consequences.

I don't really care if people want to get high with whatever they want, I care about those people getting addicted and deprived. not all drugs make them harmless junkies, you know.

so I am actually for both solutions: strict ban with lifetime sentence to any user, OR, mass drug production and cheap-as-in-dirt drug market.

the current situation where drugs are widely available and are highly priced doesn't make any sense.

[Eagleon]

humans are a violent race to begin with, only quenched by having all our primal urges satisfied. addictions alter this equilibrium a lot, raising the bar at which the addicted feels his primal urges satisfied and tipping the equilibrium between self serving behavior and social consequences.

I don't really care if people want to get high with whatever they want, I care about those people getting addicted and deprived. not all drugs make them harmless junkies, you know.

I don't think it really works like a mana bar - you don't have a certain amount of rage or lustherp or humor, and then you stop having it for a while when you've expressed it enough. And people are perfectly capable of learning sociopathic behavior without drugs - the real drive for social behavior is a dependence (one might even say addiction) for social support, starting from our dependence on our caregivers for food and comfort. Addiction may provide more reasons to do something socially unacceptable, but that doesn't mean it directly makes people more harmful to others.

I guess I take objection to this because it's a thought process that's used to stigmatize people that would dearly like to quit. They don't need to have their humanity rejected on top of struggling with addiction.

[Sigulbard]

My take on drugs is like my take on tattoos.

I think tattoos look fine...on other people.

[Korbac]

My take on drugs is like my take on tattoos.

I think tattoos look fine...on other people.

Until they become weathered with age and look crap?

[lordcooper]

Dunno, my grandad's tattoos still look pretty awesome.