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[ToonyMan]

I think you measure how hard the phallus is, that's concrete!

[Xantalos]

What exactly would qualify as hard data if not people's experiences?  There isn't actually an objective way to measure penis goodness.

Check for a goatee.

[frostshotgg]

I think you measure how hard the phallus is, that's concrete!

I for one would *really* not enjoy having my dick rubbed on a diamond.

[moocowmoo]

Hey so I'm a lady. And as a lady who has been with *several* dudes, from the lady's point of view alone (granting that I have never had a penis and can't offer a firsthand perspective), uncircumcised penises are WAY more fun and physically attractive, despite what American pornography might suggest.

Anyway, I'd be most interested in hearing the point of view of someone who had an uncircumcised penis and then, as an adult, got a circumcision. That person has considerable weight in the discussion of which variety of penis is better overall. Other than that... Does anyone really have the experience necessary to offer an opinion truly worthy of consisderation?

While I appreciate your input, isn't it incredible that the sexual preferences of adults should be a factor in surgery on a child's genitals?

We do not base the ethics of female genital cutting on how many cut women are for or against it. We seek to eradicate it in all cultures, regardless of the opinions of cut women. I suspect many cut women must highly resent being told they are mutilated rather than improved, and that they mutilated their daughters. Then we turn around and say, the opinions of cut men must be the measure of whether or not it is wrong to cut young boys.

[Scoops Novel]

If they had surveyed 1,300 people who had circumcisions as adults then you would likely have a conclusive study.  But they didn't.  I would argue that the differences in these "scores" that they reported can very easily be explained by a total lack of a baseline for a comparison.  The only hard data they were willing to put forth in the article is the 3.31 vs 3.72 on the "sensitivity" score!  What a joke.

I for one am very, very grateful that my parents didn't wait in order to let me decide!! Parents make a tremendous number of decisions that affect their kids before the kid is able to decide for themselves.  This is not tyranny, it's parenting.  I'm happy with my parents' decision, always have been, I've never had any complaints from my partners and have never, ever, had any pain or numbness.

If you're uncertain as to whether you'd take that, particular, choice for your child in their infancy, there's your answer, right down to the existence of disagreement as to it's effects when you were reared i suspect.

[Sheb]

MSH: Sure, circumsising ain't foolproof. But it helps, and in certain circumstance it's worth the risk. After all, parent vaccine their kids without their kids' consents, and no one bat an eyelid, despite the fact that vaccination do in fact pose a risk.

Now of course it doesn't apply to offering your son's foreskin to some eldricht creature. What I'm arguing for is that the list of situation where it's okay to cut your son's dick should be expanded. If you live in a country where everyone has AIDS, it's worth it.

[Loud Whispers]

MSH: Sure, circumsising ain't foolproof. But it helps, and in certain circumstance it's worth the risk. After all, parent vaccine their kids without their kids' consents, and no one bat an eyelid, despite the fact that vaccination do in fact pose a risk.

Vaccines =/= cutting something off.

[moocowmoo]

Now of course it doesn't apply to offering your son's foreskin to some eldricht creature. What I'm arguing for is that the list of situation where it's okay to cut your son's dick should be expanded. If you live in a country where everyone has AIDS, it's worth it.

How effective has decades worth of infant circumcision been against the HIV rates in America and Israel? Why don't you compare them to other developed nations that do not circumcise, so we can see how effective it has been.

[Aklyon]

MSH: Sure, circumsising ain't foolproof. But it helps, and in certain circumstance it's worth the risk. After all, parent vaccine their kids without their kids' consents, and no one bat an eyelid, despite the fact that vaccination do in fact pose a risk.

Vaccines =/= cutting something off.

We could make an entire topic on vaccine debate.

Whether it would last longer or shorter than this thread is also debateable.

[Loud Whispers]

We could make an entire topic on vaccine debate.

Whether it would last longer or shorter than this thread is also debateable.

There is the whole thing too about vaccines not forcing children to lose a part of their body.

[Xantalos]

We could make an entire topic on vaccine debate.

Whether it would last longer or shorter than this thread is also debateable.

There is the whole thing too about vaccines not forcing children to lose a part of their body.

It's too unfeasible to make anti-penis vaccines.

[Sheb]

Loud Whisper, as far as this discussion is concerned, it's a deicision parents take, that can put their kids in harm's way.

moocowmoo: Circumsision is more of a last line of defense: if for some reason you kid slep around with an infested girl/guy, forgot/broke the condom, at least there is some chance the virus will dry on his exposed dick. It doesn't really make sense to promote it as a defense in countries like the US where AIDS infection rate are low and other ways of protecting are readily available.

[Loud Whispers]

Loud Whisper, as far as this discussion is concerned, it's a deicision parents take, that can put their kids in harm's way.

And I don't think that's a decision parents can make.

[Sheb]

Vaccination? Actually me neither. I'm all in for government-enforced vaccination.

[Owlbread]

I am opposed to baptism for the same reason, Loud Whispers.