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[Shakerag]

new version up that should resolve the windows crashes and add a few other new things

Ahh, thanks!  This version is working for me when the last one didn't. 

I tried to get by with the equivalent that comes with dfhack, but it just wasn't the same. 

Another +1 to appreciating what you guys are doing and that Dwarf Therapist makes managing things so much damn easier.

[Psyra]

Especially happy that a column for Kills have been included. Now I can match up my legendary axelords with their elven murderdefense sprees.

[feelotraveller]

I've still got the problem with v27 that I had with v26.  (See trace logs above.)  I'm using the Win version with a 32 bit Vista OS.

The application insists that DF is not running when I try to read dwarfs. 

If I disable the option to read dwarfs at startup it finds the connection okay but then claims that DF has either stopped running or that I have unloaded my game whenever I try to read dwarfs, neither of which is true.

Any help in tracking down the problem would be great.  v25 with the 40.13 memory layouts works fine so something changed between versions which interacts badly with something on my machine.

[The Bard]

the DFFD link returns server not found. Forgive me if someone's already answered this, but is there a mirror?

[splinterz]

the DFFD link returns server not found. Forgive me if someone's already answered this, but is there a mirror?

https://github.com/splintermind/Dwarf-Therapist/releases

[The Bard]

Thanks!

[feelotraveller]

The roles spread looks much better now.    Also the kills column is a nice touch.

Is the dataset all defined roles (whether they are included in a gridview or not) by all living dwarfs (presumably excluding babies but including children?)? 

Is the social-alt gridview is outdated/defunct now? Maybe it could be replaced by a beliefs tab?  One thing I would like to be able to add to such a tab would be dreams, maybe A for great artwork, S for skill, M for masterwork, F for family, W for warrior, L for love, P for peace, R for rule the world, and um, T for touring the great sites.  Not sure that all these exist (yet) but it would be handy to be able to sort by category for picking engravers or apprentice masons from the mass of haulers.

p.s Thankyou Thistleknot for your above explanation.  Unfortunately my days of Laplace transformations are a vestigial memory - about enough to read the notation - but the general comments, and the pictures  were enlightening.

[thistleknot]

my transforms are best guesses.  I was trying to derive the area under a curve given an Ogive map of the values, but it only resulted in what I called a minmax transform (which is more correctly termed Feature Scaling), but minmax is too simple for what we want.

Anyways, I have no idea how to do anything effectively beyond what I got setup already, I would love to learn from others, first I've ever heard of Laplace Transformations.  My initial work with transformations were more like point estimates based on rank, but it's evolved a little since then to accomodate for Feature Scaling.

[splinterz]

The roles spread looks much better now.    Also the kills column is a nice touch.

Is the dataset all defined roles (whether they are included in a gridview or not) by all living dwarfs (presumably excluding babies but including children?)? 

Is the social-alt gridview is outdated/defunct now? Maybe it could be replaced by a beliefs tab?  One thing I would like to be able to add to such a tab would be dreams, maybe A for great artwork, S for skill, M for masterwork, F for family, W for warrior, L for love, P for peace, R for rule the world, and um, T for touring the great sites.  Not sure that all these exist (yet) but it would be handy to be able to sort by category for picking engravers or apprentice masons from the mass of haulers.

p.s Thankyou Thistleknot for your above explanation.  Unfortunately my days of Laplace transformations are a vestigial memory - about enough to read the notation - but the general comments, and the pictures  were enlightening.

yeah the current social-alt view is outdated and broken. i still don't know if the personality traits from before 40.x effect social skills the same way, which is what that view was for. i also don't know if it's possible for a dwarf to have more than one dream, and with Toady's upcoming changes with emotions i'll wait and see.

[feelotraveller]

Yep, fair enough.  As long as it's on the wishlist.   

I have experienced some strange behaviour with the version I am using.  I played for several hours last night and one thing I noticed was at one point I selected one of my starting seven to shear a sheep.  They all had role ratings (default role) in the 50's, 50 low and 54 high and no experience.  As it happened I choose the 2nd best fitted (53.xx rating) and away they went.  After one shearing job their suitability for the role had jumped to 80.  Yes 80, I double, triple checked.  The other dwarfs lost maybe 0.5 percent of suitability.  A second shearing job by the same dwarf led to basically no change (there may well have been a very minor swing but only what you would expect).  This odd situation persisted until the first wave of immigrants arrived whereupon the dwarf resettled in the high 50's (58 or 59) for suitability and everything returned to normal (or so it seemed) and I played on.

Then something happened, I don't know what - nothing notable in the game and I found that suitablity for roles for all dwarfs had significantly jumped in a whole heap of areas.  It stayed this way.  Just about no red anywhere in the gridview.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So I quit for the night and figured it might all fix itself up with a reload in the morning.  But it didn't...  I played on a bit, getting used to my new do-everything-good dwarfs.  Then I decided to start on the process of merging the default roles with my custom ones (basically deleting my custom roles in preparation for another pass sometime in the future).  I added four default roles to my custom role gridview, compared them, then deleted the my old corresponding custom roles from the gridview and from the custom roles list.  Upon rereading my dwarfs, lo and behold, things were back to what I take to be normal.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So basically things went weird and did not right themselves until deleting a few custom roles caused a deeper recalculation?  Thought it was worth noting...

Edit: on a different matter...  I had modified my Engraver role (note this does not effect the current default role) so that dwarfs who have a preference for Creatures(Hateable) get a preference weighting of -1.00 (splinterz, right again) but the tooltip displays this as Dislikes Creatures(Hateable) weight +1.00 which is a different thing altogether (all dwarfs will get a match since they all hate a type of vermin...).  I'm still waiting for a dwarf to spawn who likes a hateable vermin in my current game but either the tooltip needs changing, or more likely, the role editor needs tweaking.

[splinterz]

Yep, fair enough.  As long as it's on the wishlist.   

I have experienced some strange behaviour with the version I am using.  I played for several hours last night and one thing I noticed was at one point I selected one of my starting seven to shear a sheep.  They all had role ratings (default role) in the 50's, 50 low and 54 high and no experience.  As it happened I choose the 2nd best fitted (53.xx rating) and away they went.  After one shearing job their suitability for the role had jumped to 80.  Yes 80, I double, triple checked.  The other dwarfs lost maybe 0.5 percent of suitability.  A second shearing job by the same dwarf led to basically no change (there may well have been a very minor swing but only what you would expect).  This odd situation persisted until the first wave of immigrants arrived whereupon the dwarf resettled in the high 50's (58 or 59) for suitability and everything returned to normal (or so it seemed) and I played on.

Then something happened, I don't know what - nothing notable in the game and I found that suitablity for roles for all dwarfs had significantly jumped in a whole heap of areas.  It stayed this way.  Just about no red anywhere in the gridview.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So I quit for the night and figured it might all fix itself up with a reload in the morning.  But it didn't...  I played on a bit, getting used to my new do-everything-good dwarfs.  Then I decided to start on the process of merging the default roles with my custom ones (basically deleting my custom roles in preparation for another pass sometime in the future).  I added four default roles to my custom role gridview, compared them, then deleted the my old corresponding custom roles from the gridview and from the custom roles list.  Upon rereading my dwarfs, lo and behold, things were back to what I take to be normal.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So basically things went weird and did not right themselves until deleting a few custom roles caused a deeper recalculation?  Thought it was worth noting...

Edit: on a different matter...  I had modified my Engraver role (note this does not effect the current default role) so that dwarfs who have a preference for Creatures(Hateable) get a preference weighting of -1.00 (splinterz, right again) but the tooltip displays this as Dislikes Creatures(Hateable) weight +1.00 which is a different thing altogether (all dwarfs will get a match since they all hate a type of vermin...).  I'm still waiting for a dwarf to spawn who likes a hateable vermin in my current game but either the tooltip needs changing, or more likely, the role editor needs tweaking.

i had a similar report from thistleknot, but hadn't been able to pin down exactly what the cause was, since it seemed completely random. i'll play around with the custom roles and see what i can find, thanks for the detailed information.

for the engraver, the 'dislikes' is the default prefix for a negative preferences (dislikes copper, wool, etc.) to indicate that the weight is applied inversely. what would you suggest, just showing a negative weight and remove the dislikes?

[feelotraveller]

Edit: your suggestion for the negative preferences sounds good.

While picking on trivial loose ends - the cheesemaking labour seems to be lacking an icon, and if any labour in dwarf fortress is iconic... 

Going back over my announcements list I noticed that the weird roles rating (the widespread one) happened around about the time one of my dwarfs 'became' a furnace operator.  He was a 'farmer' (actually tanning) before.  Not sure if that could be related.  I'll keep my eyes open but the notable feature, for me, was what caused the problems to disappear - immigrants/change in list of roles.

[feelotraveller]

I have made a second pass through the civilian roles, a lot of the changes follow on from splinterz's feedback but there are a few others.  In at least one case (Hunter) I have rolled back the changes I made after further thought.  More minor tweaking than an overhaul.

I have also made a pass through many of the military roles.  Nothing too controversial I hope except that I removed the armour/shield preferences from the weapon types.  The reasoning is that these are relevant for all military roles and already have their own role specifications.  Also I took out the clothes from the armour user role since their contribution to protection is rather minimal.  I did not do a Pikeman role since my understanding is that dwarfs currently can't use these.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9850

Feedback is welcome and hopefully my tardiness, and technical difficulties won't delay any potential revision for nearly as long.


I also made a copy of the custom gridviews I have been using if anyone wants to try them out.  (You will need the above roles unless you want to edit them to fill in the blanks.)  The latter were made for my personal use/taste but you are free to comment or use however you like.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9849

Also a bit of feedback on the new general categories.  There is a need for an additional grouping for crops.  There are some plants (Muck root, Bloated tuber, Kobold bulb, Valley herb of the 0.34.xx crops) that a farmer can never plant or harvest since they do not have seeds.  A herbalist can gather these.  The current crops category should be split in two to reflect this, with the farmer having preference only for those which can be planted while the herbalist has both.  The new crops probably should be left where they are until we know more...

On a lighter note I'm wondering what 'Wagon' tastes like if I can convince my butchers to slaughter one!

[splinterz]

very nice, thanks for taking the time to go through those default roles.

i agree that the armor preferences are probably unnecessary for the military roles. the attributes are trickier though. both strength and agility contribute to movement speed. so arguably you'll want those on virtually every military role; either to get ranged into position quickly, or get melee into attack range. disease resistance and recuperation could be added to melee roles as well. personally i favour those two attributes over other physical attributes since they cannot be trained, unlike strength and agility, for example.

the only other thing i noticed was that dodger is using the wrestling skill. i'll look into the crop vs gathering and as for the wagon creatures.. yeah i don't know, i'll have to check into that one too

[feelotraveller]

attributes are tricky.  as i understand it strength and agility effect the speed of performance of every task. so really they should be everywhere=nowhere.  no doubt you know more about this than i do so perhaps i'm overlooking something? my focus was to get the preferences into somewhat better shape.  for attributes i followed the information on the wiki but, a big but, that itself is based on the assumption, untested as far as i can tell, that skill use which trains certain attributes also benefits from them.

science is needed both for the attributes and for further refining the preferences. not to mention the traits...  i don't feel like i am up for that amount of rigour and counting of tic's at this point in time.  probably means waiting until i am hit by a strange mood and hoping that dwarf therapist is involved.    or maybe someone else will get keen.

don't know how i did that with dodger... 1.01 version now up.