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[Gamerlord]

No, we are not dogs. We are still organisms and the language that all life understands is: mess with me and I will f*ck your shit up. And I'm not going on about 'shock and awe'. Neither am I a terrorist.

You are talking about beating up a drunk until they are broken and disfigured in an attempt to intimidate their friends into not retaliating.
Shock and awe and terrorism aptly describe what you suggest.

We are complex organisms and big sticks that fuck shit up do not stop violence, any more than beating up children gets them to lead peaceful lives as adults or the existence of the justice system eliminating murder.

I am talking about going all out in self defence against a violent drunk.

By 'knock out quick' I don't necessarily mean to knock them out, I mean to incapacitate. Maybe stun him, dislocate a joint or two maybe, nothing major.

Stunning?

You REALLY don't know how to incapacitate a person safely do you?

Which I would rewrite but it is a point. Attempting to stop someone with violence without knowledge of how to apply said violence has the consequence of causing undue harm.

Headbutt to the front of the skull usually works for me without causing too much 'undue harm'.

[Neonivek]

Headbutt to the front of the skull usually works for me without causing too much 'undue harm'

Hematoma is quite lethal.

I think if you find a violent drunk, temporarily disabling them (Pressure points?) is better than fucking them up.

How are you going to disable him? Pressure points don't work the way you think.

[Loud Whispers]

I am talking about going all out in self defence against a violent drunk.

You cross the line of self defence when they are incapable of defending themselves and you break their bones, smash their face in and all to tell their friends not to fuck with you.

Good luck with that.

[Gamerlord]

I am talking about going all out in self defence against a violent drunk.

You cross the line of self defence when they are incapable of defending themselves and you break their bones, smash their face in and all to tell their friends not to fuck with you.

Good luck with that.

At what point are they incapable of defending themselves?

[Flying Dice]

I am talking about going all out in self defence against a violent drunk.

You cross the line of self defence when they are incapable of defending themselves and you break their bones, smash their face in and all to tell their friends not to fuck with you.

Good luck with that.

At what point are they incapable of defending themselves?

If they're drunk enough, from the moment the confrontation begins. Otherwise, likely from the point where you headbutt them. To be perfectly honest you're sounding like someone who, say, really admired the way Ender was written, and decided to model their own behavior on that. If you are at a point where someone is realistically incapable of harming you, you do not continue to injure them. For that matter, if you can resolve a personal conflict either by leaving or fighting, and you choose the latter, you are in the wrong. The only situation where 'self defence' is a reasonable explanation for harming another person is when you had no other option, and then only if you stopped as soon as the threat was removed.

[Remuthra]

I'd just like to say, notice the lack of host?

[Frumple]

Pretty sure most of us are aware of the general thrust of the OP's intention in making the thread. Doesn't mean it's not an interesting topic anyway, y'know?

[Flying Dice]

Pretty sure most of us are aware of the general thrust of the OP's intention in making the thread. Doesn't mean it's not an interesting topic anyway, y'know?

This, essentially. He was transparent, but the topic (evidently) merits some discussion in spite of him.

[Loud Whispers]

Anyways, IMO, violence shouldn't be used unless unnecessary, and if you HAVE to use it, use it in such a way that it stops the person getting back at you without lasting damage, unless that is absolutely necessary.

Why not just give no reasons to have one want to "get back at you?"

[Fenrir]

I am pleased to live in a society where disfiguring drunks will likely supply you with ample jail time.

Gamerlord, his friends are likely to be rather annoyed at seeing a companion beaten nearly to death, and they shall probably not think well of you for doing it while he didn’t have his wits about him. So now you have yourself multiple young persons that don’t like you, and they have the leisure of planning the vindication of their dead or crippled friend, and they may choose to fall on you whenever and wherever they think most advantageous. Superior numbers, the choice of battlefield, and the use of surprise leave them holding all the cards. Who were you trying to intimidate again?

[ToonyMan]

What the fuck guys, does anybody else get angry when people open and close doors in the house when you're trying to sleep?  I just watn to splatter their chins with a frut

ed:
SHUT UP CAT STOP CLAWING THE DOOR IMA FUCKIN KILL UUUUUU

jesus christmas stop scratching me it hurts!!!

[Neonivek]

I am pleased to live in a society where disfiguring drunks will likely supply you with ample jail time.

Gamerlord, his friends are likely to be rather annoyed at seeing a companion beaten nearly to death, and they shall probably not think well of you for doing it while he didn’t have his wits about him. So now you have yourself multiple young persons that don’t like you, and they have the leisure of planning the vindication of their dead or crippled friend, and they may choose to fall on you whenever and wherever they think most advantageous. Superior numbers, the choice of battlefield, and the use of surprise leave them holding all the cards. Who were you trying to intimidate again?

The issue is that his hypathetical situation relies on psychic powers which is really where it falls appart.

he "Knew" the person was going to cause trouble and the "only" way was to commit first degree assault.

[Lagslayer]

Pacifism and non-violence are both simply a means to an end, and neither is inherently superior or inferior to a more violent approach. The both focus their damage in different areas, and each can be more or less efficient depending on the situation. Beyond this explanation, it's just hammering out the details for very specific situations.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I consider myself nonviolent, but not pacifistic. I do not accept violence as a problem-solving option in personal conflict, but I do believe in self-defense.

I hold these beliefs because they make for a more peaceful, pleasant society without making the individual vulnerable to those willing to disregard it and engage in antisocial actions. Small-scale MAD, if you will. The stakes are not quite that high in most instances, but you get the idea.

I have never been in a fight and do not plan to be. More than once it has gone to the edge, but I have a diplomatic streak that has averted such things. More importantly, I have a very strong sense of self-control that keeps my more base desires in check. I believe I developed this level of self-control early in life because it was necessary to avoid adopting violence as a common solution. I have the fire in me, there is no doubt. When enraged I know I could inflict terrible harm upon the target of that rage, and it is both the fear and repulsiveness of that outcome which keeps it from happening.

[Gamerlord]

I am pleased to live in a society where disfiguring drunks will likely supply you with ample jail time.

Gamerlord, his friends are likely to be rather annoyed at seeing a companion beaten nearly to death, and they shall probably not think well of you for doing it while he didn’t have his wits about him. So now you have yourself multiple young persons that don’t like you, and they have the leisure of planning the vindication of their dead or crippled friend, and they may choose to fall on you whenever and wherever they think most advantageous. Superior numbers, the choice of battlefield, and the use of surprise leave them holding all the cards. Who were you trying to intimidate again?

The issue is that his hypathetical situation relies on psychic powers which is really where it falls appart.

he "Knew" the person was going to cause trouble and the "only" way was to commit first degree assault.

o_O
What in god's name are you going on about? As to someone bent on causing trouble, I meant someone yelling at people and pushing them around and getting more and more violent. And in any case, I said that I would resort to violence if I couldn't get them to leave or calm down some other way. My entire bloody point is that when you must resort to violence, don't leave someone who not only holds a grudge, but is unafraid of you.