Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[femmelf]

So, I don't know how, I guess.

Tone and Seriousness:
     I don't get it. I often can't tell when people are joking, when to be serious, or not. I often just try to be what I guess is way too formal, because I don't really understand how to be much of anything else without being inappropriate at times, which is just stuff I hear other people say.... It appears I am that dumb.... Or, maybe the right phrase is "I am that oblivious." I will seemingly tune out of reality for a while, and go into my own head, in my own space. I just focus on work, but that really isn't enough. There are customers and I guess friends to talk to. I'm not "afraid" to talk to them, but I can never tell if I'm doing it the right way.

Image and how others perceive
     I don't get this either. I'm pretty sure I come across as weird and way too focused on work. When I say, "focused on work" I mean I just blow everybody else off and lose myself in it. I guess I look really young, which means if I'm ever going to be taken seriously for a moment, I'm going to have to be really "professional." Yet, all the professionals I see basically joke around with each other and don't take anything seriously. That is, they do that around each other. They seem to have some kind of "game face" around clients or publicly I guess.

"Be yourself:"
    I get told this a lot and I NEVER understand it. I guess I come off as fake. The reality is that I am an incredibly nice person, who gets taken advantage of all the time because of this. I don't think I CAN be myself, cause I'm pretty sure the world will step all over me. People scare the hell out of me, because they do things that make no sense to me. They will talk about things they know piss people off like politics and religion and whatever, and the only thing I know how to do to deal with that is to just keep quiet. It isn't just politics and religion either. People get upset over what seems like everything, so I just keep to myself and say as little as possible.

Except it seems I have to interact with people....   


How do you deal with these insane things called people?

[Xantalos]

I just interact with them however. Eventually they adapt to you.

[Max White]

'Be yourself' is contemporary hippy crap for 'I don't have any practical advice, so I'll just repeat bullshit from Saturday morning cartoons!'

I find I can interact great with people, significantly better in person than online, but there is no one single 'Max' that I just be. I am a very different 'myself' at work than with friends, and another again when with family. There is a totally different me when I'm on a date, talking to somebody for the first time, or online. The easiest way to fit into a social situation is to be able to change personality more easily than you can change pants. It doesn't come easily for everybody, but it does go to show that the idea of 'Just be yourself' is a little shallow, as it doesn't indicate what yourself to be and when.

[nenjin]

How do you deal with these insane things called people?

You kind of have to want to. That's the prerequisite. You accept that most people don't make sense to you, it's the trade off for having social interaction at all. When people are having a conversation around you, you have to want to be part of it. If you don't, you shouldn't feel guilty or awkward about it. If it's your job however...you can always take the easier way out and learn to be better at being fake and insincere.

Have you led a pretty isolated life? Because this comment:

Yet, all the professionals I see basically joke around with each other and don't take anything seriously. That is, they do that around each other. They seem to have some kind of "game face" around clients or publicly I guess.

Struck me. Most people alter their behavior based on where they are/who they're with. There's the work them, the home them, the them with friends, the them with clients, the them when they're in a airplane, the them when they're drunk. You sound like you kind of have one mode, like you are exactly the same in private as you are in public.

You say you're not afraid to talk to people but then you follow it up with a statement like this:

...who gets taken advantage of all the time because of this. I don't think I CAN be myself, cause I'm pretty sure the world will step all over me. People scare the hell out of me, because they do things that make no sense to me.

You talk to people stiffly because you feel the real you is vulnerable, and you're worried about making yourself more vulnerable by not talking to them "the right way", which just makes you more anxious.

You haven't really made clear why you feel so vulnerable, or how you fear you'll be taken advantage of in a social situation. That someone might have fun at your expense? Ridicule what you like or believe? Talk about things you don't understand and think you're stupid? Taken offense at a random thing you say? There's nothing wrong with being judicious about which conversations are worth getting into, and which ones aren't. Especially when it comes to religion and politics at work. But what is it about casual social interactions (did you see that movie/do you watch this tv show/did you hear the news/the weather/ect....) that spooks you?

[kaijyuu]

'Be yourself' is contemporary hippy crap for 'I don't have any practical advice, so I'll just repeat bullshit from Saturday morning cartoons!'

It's the easiest way to put something that's rather abstract and hard to understand. People spend too much effort trying to "fit in" when they should instead be finding the environment and people that fit them, instead.

I find I can interact great with people, significantly better in person than online, but there is no one single 'Max' that I just be. I am a very different 'myself' at work than with friends, and another again when with family. There is a totally different me when I'm on a date, talking to somebody for the first time, or online. The easiest way to fit into a social situation is to be able to change personality more easily than you can change pants. It doesn't come easily for everybody, but it does go to show that the idea of 'Just be yourself' is a little shallow, as it doesn't indicate what yourself to be and when.

It's the exact opposite for me. I had loads of different masks I wore in different situations, trying to make myself as appealing as possible to those around me. But those masks didn't accurately reflect "me." As such, I was horribly boring and never really felt like I connected to anyone, ever. By attempting to throw away those masks entirely, I made a buttload of friends, attracted a fiance, and generally made my life much better.

[Reudh]

It does come down to practice at least partially. Find yourself a group of people who you get along well with and watch how you react to them; watch how you react to a different group.

[Muz]

You do sound like myself and a lot of other people I know who 'didn't fit in'. We even have a slang word in my language for someone like that - "skema", also used as an insult meaning 'nerd', 'someone who follows things by the book', 'afraid to break rules', 'afraid to joke around', 'naive'. There's nothing really wrong with it, and you're not alone.

I had this problem in school. I found that the best way was to sit quietly in the background, avoid people, and observe them. 10 years later, I know people better than they know themselves, so I'd put it as a skill you have to learn, like reading and games.

Some people are just more 'normal' than others. It's a disadvantage, really. They find a clique, a large group of people they fit in with, and isolate themselves from the rest of the world. They'll eventually become increasingly rigid/conservative, mixing with only 'their kind', labeling all others as "weird". They'll have trouble grabbing opportunities like learning/working overseas because they can't bear to lose their group of friends. They never really realize that social skills are a skill.

But you, the outlier, have much more flexibility. There's plenty of books I could recommend if you're interested, but most cover small aspects of human nature, and you'd have to read a bunch of them to see the bigger picture.

It took me a while to learn that gifts are not free, they'll always expect something back. Someone who gives 20 gifts and doesn't get anything in return becomes cranky. Heck, it took me a lot longer to learn that to (some) women, an expensive gift is worth as much as a cheap one, it's quantity that matters. Whereas to (some) men, a cheap trinket gift can be an insult. I'm stereotyping here, but pointing out that people are surprisingly unintuitive.

Don't look at people as in their relation to you. Look at yourself from a third person perspective, filter out all emotions and don't take things personally. Analyse yourself like you would analyse a damaged machine.

Now think about every event in the past where you don't understand why someone acted the way they did. Everyone has their own drive and motivations. Did you hit one of their insecurities (being more liked, having something they want, having more authority, 'stealing' their spotlight)? Were they pulled by peer pressure? Peer pressure is probably the most powerful force in the world. Were they trying to get something from you but you didn't give (or know) what they wanted?

Try to see people through their own eyes, understand what makes them act the way they do. Empathize with them. Most will have vastly different values to yourself and learned different social habits along the way. You probably don't fit any of the patterns they're familiar with, and they probably see you as being fake. Worse still, maybe you're just too nice, and most people feel that if you're being nice, you want something from them.

Another thing to note is that people are a collection of habits they've picked up when they were younger. As they age, they become more like these habits, doing these things almost automatically. It's what people do when they're bored that forms these habits; as they age, they are less often bored and more often following some routine. American rage at the word "socialism/communism" is an example of a social habit, passed down, long after the Cold War, even when no longer applicable.

Also note that when people become close enough friends, they start to emphasize with each other. They'll feel each other's pain and happiness, almost literally, through mirror neurons. For some people, this extends to only their immediate family. For others, it could extend to people of the same race, religion, country, political beliefs. Maybe even animals. It explains why some people will die to defend a brother (or "brother"). Or why some people have no emotional impact when an Arabian guy a thousand miles away dies unjustly through the actions of a fellow countryman, even though both are human.

[pilgrimboy]

I found How To Win Friends and Influence People to be lifechanging. The name might seem like a turnoff, but the book is great.

[kerlc]

I really have no idea how I manage it, but i guess it has to do with the fact that i'm somewhat adaptable, despite the fact i will say what i want to say to people, without lies or trying to make myself appear as a better person than i am.

I'm also more comfortable talking to people online, or talking to people i know very well. I am a sort of an introvert, i can never quite feel comfortable with groups of unknown people or unknown people in general. Or groups of people, that too.

[LoSboccacc]

People spend too much effort trying to "fit in" when they should instead be finding the environment and people that fit them, instead.

this.

you won't befriend everyone. but you won't find friends of similar attitude until you start makiing something you like in group.
that will attract likely minded people.

pick up anything you really like to do, that make you at ease and relax you, that you can do with a good proficiency. then find a club and join, or start your own and let it known!

this will only help in finding people likely minded, you still have to go the extra mile to befriend them.

[Mushroo]

Play more Dwarf Fortress.

[Imperfect]

Oh, I see myself about 3 years ago in that. My diagnosis would be that you are introverted, like me, and about everyone on this forum. The difference between extroverts(about 60% of the population) and introvers is that extroverts relax and gain energy by absorbing the good vibes from other people(that's why the others professionals, extroverts I'd say, are trying to make them happy), while introvers(such as me, and from what I read I guess also you) recharge energy while alone and expend it in social settings.

Here's the solutions I came up with for my issues, which were very similar to yours:

I will seemingly tune out of reality for a while, and go into my own head, in my own space.

I've been experiencing this my whole life, without even realizing it of course, because how would I compare? But about two months ago, when one of my friends remarked, after another one of my phaseouts when I lost track of the conversation, that I'm capable of dealing with people normally, but somethimes I shift out, it struck me that that staying in my head rather than paying attention to my surroundings isn't a thing that i do, something "active", it's who I am, it's my default state, which I leave only when I have to.

People scare the hell out of me, because they do things that make no sense to me. They will talk about things they know piss people off like politics and religion and whatever, and the only thing I know how to do to deal with that is to just keep quiet.

I've developed a habit of ignoring such discussions, no matter if online or IRL, as they are exhausting and never lead anywhere. No problem gets solved, never ever. Political ideologies, religious beliefs, race issues, national feuds, brand wars... Those are all just simple differences between people. They are there, but arguing about them is pointless. Let me explain on a comparsion to political borders: First, the border between two counties somewhere in the US. Everybody knows it's there, because somebody drew it on a map, but that border does not do anything, it simply is there. Next, the DMZ between North and Souh Korea. A border, too. Somebody drew it on a map, but then decided to put minefields, sentry towers, soldiers and whatnot on his side, and point it all towards the other. Tho other guy didn't want to look weak, so he put some guns and cops there, too. And now it's a border that limits freedom and costs money and lives, while in principle being the same as the county one, except for all that armament pointing on the other side and all the lives and money wasted on... what? And that is how pointless and absurd flamewars are. Discussions where people from one camp on the matter of your choosing spew fire and sulphur on those form the other are the sewage of human communication, and it is only well to simply ignore them.

How do you deal with these insane things called people?

I'm picky about who I spend my time with. If I don't understand or enjoy what a certain group of people does/talks about, then they are simply not "my tribe". I leave them and move on. I learned on high school that if you are stuck in one place with people you don't like, don't try to get them to understand you or change your behavior fit in, neither will work. Just remove either them or yourself from such a place.

Hope those help a bit.

[scrdest]

First of all, you seem to have a lot of anxiety about how do you come across. Been there, done that. You may also have some of the mild psychological disorder, but it seems all too common to throw around diagnoses without looking into other possible causes of confusion about Shit People Do.


 'Be yourself' annoys the hell out of me, it's tired and cliche, but there IS a point in that. The point being, fuck the world, if you like it and nobody else may get hurt, do it.

 This is harder than it sounds, really, there is a sort of an instinct to fall back in line, but if you want to get anywhere, remember that people will think of you whatever they will want to, regardless of reality. Humans aren't really optimized for being rational and just in their judgments.

 You say you're a nice person, I say you're an unassertive person. 'Nice' is an interesting word. It is basically a piece of linguistic candy, an equivalent of saying 'Good dog'. This kind of 'niceness' is just a display of subservience. (low status behavior too, so if you try to be a people-pleaser don't expect respect). You are acting like that either due to ingrained belief that you should act 'nice', or the need to validate yourself as a human.

 If the former, if you want to be nice, act out of respect, not compulsion. If you value your friends, giving them a gift or doing them a favor should come naturally, without it feeling forced on you. If you'd feel forced to do something for a friend, say no in as polite manner as you can, and escalate should you be forced more overtly. Worth mentioning, someone who is trying to force you to do something is likely not to actually be a friend.

 If the latter, it's the 'ugh, the issues' part. Remember that you are staying alive out of your own and no-one else's will (how you came to be, of course, was not up to you to decide), so you are ultimately the only person who makes decisions about it, and that any opinion someone make about you is just their judgment of you, not a cosmic truth.

 Also, most of the time it's not being nice that matters, but not being an asshole. People actually don't give a shit about someone being nice, they get used to that and the result is that you are treated as a servant in all but name. So, long story short, stop trying to act nice, do not stop not being a jerk.


 Now, moving on to other points: professionalism is a really nifty facade. It's mostly an image thing, really, and beside that part, it's not about focusing so hard you get tunnel vision, but treating things seriously. Like you said, 'game face'. That's just a bunch of applied tricks that basically convey 'Unless you're involved in my work (as in, the actual things you do, not the job itself), fuck off, I care about what I'm trying to do'. Quite useful, but there's a time and place for everything.

People talk about politics and religion and so on not because they want to piss each other off. Theoretically, they are trying to convince the other people that they are right, and get them to do things they think are right. Actually, this may be true, but just as often it's just a display of allegiance to a 'tribe', being people sharing their religious, political, etc. views. You don't have the weaponry to deal with those, because you haven't dealt with finding the answers to the underlying questions, and once again, you fear upsetting others, so you are unwilling to defend your position.

About the tone, I fear I cannot help, since inability to perceive tone is just as alien to me as, say, being deaf. I know some people are, I just can't comprehend how does it feel.

Also, @Imperfect, I've grown to dislike the Introvert/Extrovert Jungian categories, since it makes you entrench yourself firmly on one end and point machine guns at opportunities. Either it is wrong, or by some miracle I landed on the exact middle between the two, since I can express either Introverted or Extroverted traits and behaviors, and my energy is a bell curve over time in both social setting and while alone (i.e. after a while my Alone alarm turns on and I have to talk to some people, and after a while my Social alarm turns on and I get a reeeealy nasty attitude towards the world in general).

[Imperfect]

Also, @Imperfect, I've grown to dislike the Introvert/Extrovert Jungian categories, since it makes you entrench yourself firmly on one end and point machine guns at opportunities. Either it is wrong, or by some miracle I landed on the exact middle between the two, since I can express either Introverted or Extroverted traits and behaviors, and my energy is a bell curve over time in both social setting and while alone (i.e. after a while my Alone alarm turns on and I have to talk to some people, and after a while my Social alarm turns on and I get a reeeealy nasty attitude towards the world in general).

Now that you mention it, yes, I should have probably included in the response that almost everybody sits somewhere in between. with one or the other side usually being dominant. In fact, I have an alone alarm too, and can even remember a few moments when I was in a really sociable mood; but since I live in a small town's suburb with nowhere to go, I guess I let my alone alarm down so many times that it dumbed down, and I don't notice it so much.

[Funk]

the thing is you on really know some one till you have known them 6 months and got blind drunk with them a few times.

and really there are no normal people, it is all just a facade so we can get along.