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[Deepblade]

Imagine, if you will, creatures so massive that they put dragons to shame, so powerful that Armok himself needs to untie his hands from behind his back, and so scary that it would make a grown Dwarf consider hugging a tree. I of course speak of sea monsters. The giant squids and sea serpents that sailors would have on the maps of the day. We already have Sea Serpents, but they're about the size of a giant. While scary, they're not nearly big enough.

Admittedly these big boys only use, until we can take the sea to reap it's bounty or cross the ocean to wage war/trade with our island neighbors, would be for legends and engravings. I even imagine beowulf-esque stories being spread of heroes diving into stormy oceans from their boat to destroy these foul creatures once and for all.

My personal megabeasts of choice would be Megalodons (conservative estimates put them around 67 feet long where as I think we should go with a terrifying safe 79-82 ft.), Sea Dragons (sea serpents on steroids with a breath attack), and the classic Kraken.
Although, to keep these blood thirsty noble creatures safe, it might be best to keep them far away from the coast, far from tricky Dwarves who will empty the ocean to drown them.

[Robosaur]

Upvote'd, seconded, like'd, and +1'd.
now that that trite is out of the way

I want
the
LEVIATHAN.

[NW_Kohaku]

First, megabeasts are basically always creatures actually of myth, so a magalodon isn't really a candidate for megabeast for the same reason that T-Rex isn't.  Part of the point of the megabeasts, and the names of the ages, is that the world as a whole is more mythic when they are around. Non-mythical creatures as megabeasts kind of go counter to that notion.  (Krakens would be fine by that standard, though...  As would something like Scylla and Charybdis as some sort of semi-megabeast that just fills up a specific "lair".)

In order for sea beasts to be any real threat, however, they need to be amphibious. 

Krakens from classic myth were generally attacking ships, since those were things they could actually, you know, reach. 

And reach is kind of a big deal, since you currently can't reach, even if you're a dragon or bronze colossus or some other creature that hypothetically should be able to reach at least more than one tile away.  (Barring dragonfire, of course...) Having a Kraken show up at a fortress, even one near an ocean, will likely just involve one menacingly glaring at your fort from the water's edge before likely getting swept up in a wave and getting beached and air-drowning... which isn't exactly a climactic showdown.

You also can't really send any dwarves out to fight it, being as dwarves already infamously lose fights against significantly less dangerous carp by simple virtue of the fact that they often can't swim.  (They also lose fights against the urge to go walking off a @#*$ing waterfall, so putting dwarves anywhere in the path of water is generally inadvisable.) 

Basically, the reason you don't have krakens to fight right now is that there's no actual way for a normal dwarven fortress to have a fight with one.

I'm sure krakens and sea serpents are prime suspects for grand adventure when we get seafaring adventures into the game, but until boats are in, I doubt we'll actually see strictly aquatic megabeasts.

Something more like Godzilla walking up off the ocean floor, but capable of living on and stomping flat the land would be a more plausible threat to most forts.

[sackhead]

Imagine, if you will, creatures so massive that they put dragons to shame, so powerful that Armok himself needs to untie his hands from behind his back, and so scary that it would make a grown Dwarf consider hugging a tree.

we already have creatures like that they are called giant sperm whales...

but seriously i think it is alrady planned

[Neonivek]

It is pretty much as Kohaku says Megabeasts have to have some sort of mythos surrounding them.

A Trex doesn't apply on several levels: it is too small, it is too weak, and it doesn't inspire fear and awe.

[SirHoneyBadger]

This thread reminds me of the Japanese myth of the Bake-kujira, a yokai which is a ghostly but violent undead whale, accompanied by strange fish and birds, which brings curses and misfortune.

I've always wanted to see one appear in a game as a boss monster (The wish-list for my other dream-game besides DF, just to briefly touch upon it, would be a sprawling Grand Theft Auto type thing, only the setting would be from the Sengoku to early Edo era Japan, and the game itself would be set on a historically accurate map of the Japanese islands, but be heavily influenced by Samurai Champloo and other works, and also contain overt supernatural elements directly related to Japanese folklore).

[weenog]

Sea monsters good. Directly involving Armok bad. Too hardcore for dorfs to handle is implausible.

Remember, if it has stats, we can kill it. There is an army of creative and hilariously violent minds working on the problem already.

[NW_Kohaku]

Sea monsters good. Directly involving Armok bad. Too hardcore for dorfs to handle is implausible.

Remember, if it has stats, we can kill it. There is an army of creative and hilariously violent minds working on the problem already.

Of course there are ways to kill it - you can just wait for it to air-drown by getting caught on a wave. 

But being able to kill it and being an appropriately thrilling fight are two different things. 

The current HFS is generally disliked because the only way to really win against it is to abuse things like obsidian-casting.  It's not a thrilling or climactic fight the way that you could actually send in your entire fortress to fight the old clowns in an epic battle, you just tap open the circus and let the clowns spill into the obsidian casting chambers and make your Clown-Solo frozen in carbonite collection complete. 

Aquatic megabeasts you can't challenge in direct conflict are basically the same thing - on land, they're horribly disadvantaged, and no real threat to you.  At sea, your dwarves are already drowning with or without the megabeast's help. 

Basically, there's no difference right now between a kraken and a regular carp so far as combat potential is concerned.

A Trex doesn't apply on several levels: it is too small, it is too weak, and it doesn't inspire fear and awe.

It's not the "weakness" of a T-Rex that's the problem...

A T-Rex is a huge, efficient predator (much bigger than most of the current dragons), and would probably be a bigger threat than a Roc or several forms of Titan, especially if it could be capable of latching on with a bite and just walking away with its prey while shaking it around instead of "grappling" because of the size difference.

It's the mythic aspect that's lacking.  The nature of megabeasts is to make the world a more mythic age, and as the megabeasts die out, the mythical nature of the land in DF also goes away.  A Tyrannosaurus is just not a magical creature like a dragon is.

[Neonivek]

If a T-rex was 30 feet tall and shook the ground as it walked to such an extent that it could topple buildings. It would be perfectly viable as a megabeast.

Afterall Kohaku not all monsters in the game are "Fanciful".

Heck the Roc as you mentioned isn't Fanciful either and yet it is a Megabeast. It isn't magical it is just a giant eagle.

Yet a Roc has something no animal on earth can do... fly away with an elephant in claw (mind you, I don't know if the ingame Roc can actually pull that off)

would probably be a bigger threat than a Roc

No... Not only are pretty much all the Megabeasts larger then the Trex but they also tended to have abilities that far outstretch it. A roc could easily just lift a Trex and drop it to its death, a Dragon can breath fire, A Bronze Collosus is practically invulnerable, and the Hydra (once we get that combat split) is pretty much the combat queen.

[NW_Kohaku]

If a T-rex was 30 feet tall and shook the ground as it walked to such an extent that it could topple buildings. It would be perfectly viable as a megabeast.

Afterall Kohaku not all monsters in the game are "Fanciful".

Heck the Roc as you mentioned isn't Fanciful either and yet it is a Megabeast. It isn't magical it is just a giant eagle.

Yet a Roc has something no animal on earth can do... fly away with an elephant in claw (mind you, I don't know if the ingame Roc can actually pull that off)

Uh... no.  That's missing the point.

Roc's aren't real.  They aren't "just a giant eagle".  They're things that destroy the ship of Sinbad the Sailor. They're the bird Mohammad calls down to ride upon to show what Allah can do for his faithful. 

They very much are fanciful, magical creatures, just as much as dragons or a bronze colossus or a hydra or a snow titan are.  And those are the megabeasts, right there - they're all fanciful, magical creatures. 

And that's the point - megabeasts are the most fearsome of the magic creatures.

Ages are defined by whether or not they are around.  The age when Bronze Colossi roam the plains and Rocs patrol the air is a mythic age, and as those sights disappear, it becomes a more mundane one.

[NRDL]

I'd like to see Aquatic forgotten beasts. 

[Neonivek]

They very much are fanciful, magical creatures, just as much as dragons or a bronze colossus or a hydra or a snow titan are.  And those are the megabeasts, right there - they're all fanciful, magical creatures.

No, they specifically arn't. They are currently the only non-fanciful megabeast.

As well remember that real life doesn't exist in Dwarf Fortress. If there was a real life creature that could inspire the fear, awe, and reverence that megabeasts could then it by all means is a megabeast. It is just that a Trex isn't that.

[NW_Kohaku]

They very much are fanciful, magical creatures, just as much as dragons or a bronze colossus or a hydra or a snow titan are.  And those are the megabeasts, right there - they're all fanciful, magical creatures.

No, they specifically arn't. They are currently the only non-fanciful megabeast.

As well remember that real life doesn't exist in Dwarf Fortress. If there was a real life creature that could inspire the fear, awe, and reverence that megabeasts could then it by all means is a megabeast. It is just that a Trex isn't that.

Just saying "nuh-uh" isn't an argument.

"Just giant eagles" exist in the game already - they're called "giant eagles".  Rocs are mythic creatures, which is kind of why they appear under the heading "mythology" whenever you look them up.  (Like, say, here.)

And yes, Dwarf Fortress isn't real life.  That's exactly why it has mythical creatures like dragons and hydras and rocs in it. That's kind of the whole point of the argument I'm making... it's nice to see you're gradually catching on.

What you're saying is essentially akin to there being nothing magical about something that's "just a walking bronze solid bronze statue with no mechanical parts" or "just a 20-ton fire-breathing lizard". 

If you're going to make this sort of absurd case, you have to at least make some actual form of supporting argument.

[Deepblade]

I think you may have misunderstood a wee bit.
I'm not saying that these aquatic megabeasts would try to siege a fortress, even if it is near the coast. In fact, I highly discourage that. Or, necessarily contribute to the current age, since most people won't see them. The ability to air drown them would just be no fun. And of course we'd need sea faring, or at the very least the ability to send boats out to fish from the ocean, in order to get a lot of use out of them. I acknowledged that already. Until such a time as we could gain access to them they would just exist as things we see in engravings, just like griffons, chimeras, or centaurs. I believe there's even a [Does not exist] tag in their raws.

As for megalodon, it was just the first thing that popped into my head. something big and scary, so I'm not attached to it.
But, if you consider that these Dwarves have never seen a megalodon, only one or 2 exists within their entire world. Would they not be more mythical to the dwarves then a dragon, a creature they know for a fact exists/has existed. Even if they did know they exist they would probably believe that the creatures are so monstrous that they were created by the gods/demons. Or, on the other side of that, some dwarves may believe that Dragons are just an apex predator that is highly endangered.
We're burdened by knowledge they never had, so it's a matter of view. If you live in a world with unicorns but no Rhinos suddenly Rhinos are mythical and unicorns are mundane.

Also, I'd freaking love having a Godzilla in the game. Especially if he would occasionally fight other megabeasts and know martial arts.

btw, love your work in other threads Kohaku. No sarcasm, I promise.

[Neonivek]

Just saying "nuh-uh" isn't an argument

I said specifically... As in check the raws.

I'm not saying that these aquatic megabeasts would try to siege a fortress, even if it is near the coast. In fact, I highly discourage that.

Then they are powers at best, not megabeasts.

Megabeasts mean they have the megabeast behavior.

If you're going to make this sort of absurd case, you have to at least make some actual form of supporting argument

I thought I made excellent points. Though what they were seems to have escaped people.

Yet it is simple Dwarf Fortress isn't real life. What is "Mythical" in real life isn't nessisarily what is mythical in a fictional world. Especially in light that many of these creatures were mythical creatures. As in Dinosaurs were dragons at one point.

A creature megabeast quality and that can act like a megabeast... Is a megabeast irregardless of being real.

Or rather... If Godzilla was real, he would still be a Megabeast in Dwarf Fortress.

As well many creatures that are mythical in real life are ordinary in dwarf fortress. You have to get at the heart of what a Megabeast is and it isn't "Do I consider this creature mythical in real life?"