Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

[Helgoland]

They weren't accepted as Germans though, right? That's what I'm talking about - being accepted as part of the collective, as 'one of us'. That's the problem with a certain section of the immigrant - first, second, third generation immigrant - population: They don't see themselves as part of 'our' society, and much of 'our' society doesn't see them as part of it either. Needless to say, this causes much trouble.

[mainiac]

I guess you dont have to be one of us to be an american to most americans.  Man it must suck to be a foreigner.

[MarcAFK]

So if you want to be respected as a Syrian in Europe you need to become an American first, then euros will just be all " fuck that American over there, oh but at least he's not an immigrant, give him a job"

[Descan]

<sub>The adventures of the Canadians Scotsman in Germany will continue in... a couple years.

'continue' well start, mostly</sub>

[martinuzz]

Assimilation doesn't really take much in the way of active policy.  As long as there aren't active barriers, people assimilate.  None of the parents of the second or third generation asians and latinos I know in the US were met with assimilationist policies but their kids grew up very american.  German isn't the easiest language to learn but English is also pretty complicated.

You'd be surprised. Here in the Netherlands, we are having great trouble with assimilation. In the 1950s-1960s our companies hauled in a lot of immigrants from Turkey and Morocco, to work in Dutch industries.
Nowadays, their grandchildren are still not assimilated, at all (except a small minority).
Turkish people have their Turkish supermarkets, Turkish coffee houses, Turkish mosques, and Moroccans have theirs. They keep within their own little circle. They speak Turkish and Moroccan, even when in the company of Dutch people who cannot understand that.  If you ask Moroccan or Turkish youth for their nationality, they'll say they're Moroccan, and Turkish, even though their parents, and they themselves were born and raised in the Netherlands.

It's completely opposite of assimilation in America. Most immigrant children in the States, indeed, will proudly say "I am an American".

Good luck trying to find an immigrant (grand)child in the Netherlands (or many other European countries for that matter) that will proudly say "I am Dutch".

Some analist say that the root cause of this is the complete lack of active policy. The grandparents and parents of the current 3d generation immigrant children never got state sponsored Dutch language lessons, or have any social worker come by and see if they can help with fitting in into their new country. They were never encouraged to assimilate.

Other analists say it's a muslim thing, in that a muslim is not allowed to get too involved in political or social activities that do not belong to muslim religion. (Because that would be giving in to fitna - temptation)

Again some other analists say it's latent European xenophobia, where we Europeans subconsciously keep discrimination everyone who is not from our own country, and thus throw up barriers preventing assimilation.

[Helgoland]

They have one thing going for them though: Turkish supermarkets are much better than native ones.

But yeah, nationalities work much different on this side of the pond. Traditionally here you are part of the nation because your ancestors were, which used to make pretty good sense since most families had tended to stay in the same area since prehistoric times. In America the same approach obviously makes no sense at all, leading to a much more immigrant-friendly approach.

<sub>The adventures of the Canadians Scotsman in Germany will continue in... a couple years.

'continue' well start, mostly</sub>

Heh, when you come over here, shoot me a PM - I'll buy you a beer.

* Helgoland adds Descan to the list of forumites travelling through his area.

[Grim Portent]

Integration is a strange thing.

Most of the non-native descended people I've met here in Scotland seem to identify as Scottish, unless they descend from elsewhere in Britain.

[Loud Whispers]

Israelis paying a friendly visit to Islam's 3rd holiest site

[Sheb]

Orbans plan to deal with refugees has been revealed. Basically, throw everyone back to Serbia.

A bit longer: declare state of emergency, refuse asylum to anyone applying at the border (because Serbia is safe) and set up kangaroo court so anyone found inside can be sent back to Serbia in a week (with a penal charge so they wont be able to apply for visas to Schengen for 10 years).

[Antsan]

Because human rights are only for citizens. That's why they're called citizens' rights.

[Helgoland]

I don't know if it's really the refugees' human rights that are being violated - Serbia is (sort of) safe after all*. It's more that Orban is being a dick towards Serbia, putting all the load of this crisis on them instead of letting Hungary take on its fair share. Short-sighted nationalism at its finest, really.




*Although Orban's course of action may very well lead to rampant human rights abuses as the number of refugees grows too large for Serbia to handle.

[Sheb]

Well, I am sure the way those "courts" are set up violate the right to due process for a start. And then the obligation Hungary has to take refugees (the rules that refugees have to apply in the first country they get in the a EU rule, so refugees have a right to apply for asylum in Hungary).

The worst part of course is that its going to work. Refugees are going to learn and try other routes.

[scriver]

Because human rights are only for citizens. That's why they're called citizens' rights.

When people arrive at the same time in these numbers there's not much you can do.

[Sinistar]

Well, I am sure the way those "courts" are set up violate the right to due process for a start. And then the obligation Hungary has to take refugees (the rules that refugees have to apply in the first country they get in the a EU rule, so refugees have a right to apply for asylum in Hungary).

The worst part of course is that its going to work. Refugees are going to learn and try other routes.

Weeeeell, given for majority of refugees' first EU country is either Greece or Cyprus, technically they should apply for asylum there... but yeah, this is just the case of Orban being Orban. Both sad from humane perspective and ineffectual from technical one. This solves nothing.   

[Antsan]

Well, I am sure the way those "courts" are set up violate the right to due process for a start.

According to that article they won't even get a translation of anything going on in court. That's not process at all, that's just show.