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[notquitethere]

LW, Britain isn't full, the cities are just densely populated due in great part to planning laws and regulations that block self-builds and artificially limit the space for new developments.

You sound like you ate the Daily Mail for breakfast and have decided to shit it out on the forum. "Work towards making Britain into the country they left" -- where do you get this from?

[LordSlowpoke]

regulations that block self-builds

explain further

do you approve of people putting down new buildings, demolishing or refurbishing others at semi-random with no interference from the state or its representatives?

[smjjames]

Maybe you guys need to be more like the United States in welcoming immigrants and refugees? Aside from the whole illegal immigrant deal.

Edit: Though yeah I know the US hasn't been much different than the EU right now concerning immigrants at times.

[Frumple]

... hold up. Britain doesn't allow landowners to construct their own buildings, providing they meet basic safety regulations? Is that what "block self-builds" means?

[LordSlowpoke]

i believe it's the whole "you can't build a thing without having the design checked for basic safety regulations" aspect but i'd rather have him say what he means

[Graknorke]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/
Probably relevant.

[Morrigi]

The problem is that most of these people trying to get into the heart of Europe aren't real refugees. If they were, they would stop in the nearest country that is at peace, not try to get to Germany and the UK. They just want to get money from the rich welfare states. Europe has no obligation to let economic migrants in.

[smjjames]

The problem is that most of these people trying to get into the heart of Europe aren't real refugees. If they were, they would stop in the nearest country that is at peace, not try to get to Germany and the UK. They just want to get money from the rich welfare states. Europe has no obligation to let economic migrants in.

They also want to be in a country that treats them well and I'm sure the refugees would like to be able to have money as well.

[Wolfhunter107]

The problem is that most of these people trying to get into the heart of Europe aren't real refugees. If they were, they would stop in the nearest country that is at peace, not try to get to Germany and the UK. They just want to get money from the rich welfare states. Europe has no obligation to let economic migrants in.

[citation needed]

[scriver]

Maybe you guys need to be more like the United States in welcoming immigrants and refugees? Aside from the whole illegal immigrant deal.

Edit: Though yeah I know the US hasn't been much different than the EU right now concerning immigrants at times.

I'd say the US, where the natives have all been killed off or forced to live in reservations, is a fairly good example of what nobody wants European countries to turn into

But on a more serious note, I don't really have a particularly favouring view of how the US have handled immigration and racism (although I would not claim that my picture is complete either, as a viewer from abroad). Apart from that, the US takes in a whole lot less refugees than say Germany and Sweden anyway, so "being more like the US" would still mean letting less people stay.

The problem is that most of these people trying to get into the heart of Europe aren't real refugees. If they were, they would stop in the nearest country that is at peace, not try to get to Germany and the UK. They just want to get money from the rich welfare states. Europe has no obligation to let economic migrants in.

They want to get to the countries they view as having the best chances of a future in, and/or where they have relatives and friends (statistically likely to be in the countries that let the most immigrants in, for obvious reasons). They run from war and societies in upheaval. I am not sure how wanting to have a choice of where to settle would prevent them from being refugees. Beggars can be choosers, and should be expected to be.

[Reelya]

I agree it's a bit of a stretch to think a sizable chunk of people from a particular country that's at war, their main goal in life is to live on the dole somewhere else. Basically very few people think like that, even the # of people on welfare, you ask how many of them are happy with that, and it's probably a small number. Having a decent paying job beats welfare for almost all people.

There's no particular reason to think that more e.g. Syrian refugees are born lazy than any other nationality. Hell, coming from a country with no history of welfare doesn't tend to breed people who view lazing around on welfare as a good thing. Y'know, because it's not a culturally ingrained concept that such a thing is acceptable or realistic. Generally people from poor countries have a cultural ethos that you work hard, or you don't eat, and have little tolerance for lazy people. That's an attitude you only start to have after moving to a rich country.

"They want our jobs" vs "They want our welfare". Those are contradictory.

Stick with the "they want our jobs" one. That one actually makes sense. These people want economic success, they're not travelling across continents because they want to become beggars. Hell, I've seen how hard asian immigrants work here. The real threat isn't that they suck up the welfare budget, it's that they make all the money and make the white European locals ashamed of being lazy fat bums.

[LordSlowpoke]

i like how people are pointing at wars that are happening right now and using it to retroactively justify years of practically uncontrolled, mass immigration

we have to help the syrians guys, sure we can help the syrians, the syrians are pretty fucked but now i expect you to explain all the other little nationalities because saying that it's all syrians is naive at best

[mainiac]

There have been years of practically uncontrolled, mass immigration?

I had you pegged for a troll, not a reactionary.

[LordSlowpoke]

the two can intertwine quite neatly if you know what you're doing

this is a liberal webzone, after all

[mainiac]

Not really.  A troll isn't someone who just blindly disagrees with someone.  That's a contrarian.  A troll needs to be intelligent, satirize people.  If you dont have intelligence about it you aren't a troll, you are just an asshole.