Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

[Loud Whispers]

I wouldn't mind if, at the very least, they loosened up immigration restrictions between Commonwealth countries just a bit. Parents couldn't immigrate to Australia because they were short 5 points, but no problem immigrating to the US under Trade-NAFTA.

That's the thing, there's no Commonwealth entity to loosen it up, it's up to the countries themselves. Aussies got the reputation for some of the toughest immigration criteria, Aussies decide on whether they want to loosen or tighten it.

You've got some strange ideas about what having a stake in something means.

Different ideas are by virtue; different.

Naah, he's just a nationalist who's bad at rationalizing. If he was German he's probably be one of the Schlussstrich crowd and complaining about all the Turkish criminals stealing our jobs.

Ah yes, dey tuk er jerbs.
I'm quite consistent, and explain my rationalizations - if there is any miscommunications providing I have the time I'm happy to go over it. Also in Britain the group you're looking for is Romanians not Turks; I had quite the laugh when one of my friends, son of gypsies, told me of how three Romanians had ripped out all of the copper and lead in his roof while he was away and the only person who reported it to the police was an 11 year old Indian girl with the gonads of a bison. It was quite possibly the most daily mail thing I've ever heard happening in real life since the last time with the south-asian stalkers in my area and the preachers with their kids on the streets.

Yeah I don't know, apart from usually liking UK tourists & sharing common values I don't feel any loyalty to the commonwealth & I imagine it's the same for Canuks (Canadians).

Same, I don't feel loyalty to the Commonwealth, because it is a not a nation to be loyal to.

I disagree with most of the rant, but this point I'll agree on. Generally the difference between citizenship & residency is the right to vote. Some other stuff, but if you chose not to become a citizen you pretty much chose not to vote in elections. You want to vote? Fill out the paperwork, say the words. It's meaningless crap to me, but it's what you do "if" you want to vote.

More or less

On Tony Blair... What an interesting figure. I imagine the Blood God will go down besides Thatcher as one of those figures we will argue about in perpetuity.

Guardian's bale on Corbyn. Bale says Corbyn's quite divisive as a figure in Labour, and could result in a split of the largest left wing party at a time where the greens, UKIP and SNP would merely magnify the damage such a split could cause.

Naah, he's just a nationalist who's bad at rationalizing. If he was German he's probably be one of the Schlussstrich crowd and complaining about all the Turkish criminals stealing our jobs.

My point is, how does someone living somewhere entirely else with a different government and stuff have more of a stake in what happens in Scotland than someone who actually lives there? I just cannot wrap my head around the concept.

They don't, they'd be a Commonwealth Citizen living outside of the UK and as such not be able to vote. BBC estimates in total, around 45.3 million people will be able to take part. The population of the Commonwealth is an estimated 2.328 billion.
You get the idea? Citizenship + Residency, with the additional stipulation of Citizenship + Not having lived outside the UK for more than 15 years.

*EDIT
Wait, you said Scotland and not the UK; completely missed that. Apologies.

[Antsan]

Well, that at least makes sense.

[Owlbread]

I don't think a Labour split would be a terrible thing right now. The SNP, PC, Greens are working together to build what the SNP are calling a "Progressive Alliance" of parties and what's missing (apart from a United Northern Irish group, rather than a few SDLP/DUP here and there) is the vital English element. The Greens can't fill that role alone, they're just not popular enough - they only have 1 MP. Labour need to be on board in some capacity if this alliance is to have any effect and if Labour return to their social-democratic roots under Corbyn this could be the answer.

The right-wing of Labour are becoming increasingly tone deaf and may even be harming their prospects at the moment. Notice the backlash against the party after they abstained on the welfare "reform" bill passed last week at the urging of the Labour right-wing. You simply don't have the luxury of trying to appeal to Tory voters/swing voters when you're hemorrhaging your core vote to other parties.

I can see where these Labour right-wingers are coming from, to be honest. Tony Blair modeled himself on Clinton and the Labour Party on the US Democrats when "Third Way" was all the rage. When New Labour politicians call themselves "social democratic" in public it's pretty hilarious to hear but their understanding of "social democracy" is altogether different to the one in political science. When New Labour think of "social democracy", they think of "society + democracy". I don't really need to go into why Labour would find the buzzword "Society" appealing but "Democrat/democracy" evokes images of the US Democrats, Clinton, Obama and so on and that kind of centrist/centre-right Atlanticist politics with leftist lipservice found in America fits them perfectly. I think it also fits England perfectly - if there was a kind of "Democrat" party in England based on the Americans I'm sure it would do very well; they certainly did under Blair. The Blairites have a big problem though - the Democrats can hold sway with the Left in America because the Republicans are loonies. You can't really win when you don't have a crazy opponent - luckily for Blair his opponents (Hague, Iain Duncan Smith, Michael bloody Howard) were loonies and absolutely terrible leaders. Right now the Tories under Cameron have cottoned onto the Democrat trick and are trying to model themselves on the US Democrats, occupying the centre/centre-right, but with less leftist lipservice. Now where do the Blairites go? There's nothing separating them from their opponents and people just can't be bothered to vote for them anymore - nothing they can say will inspire, and in this age of Tory majorities and austerity Labour need to harden up a bit.

[wobbly]

I wouldn't mind if, at the very least, they loosened up immigration restrictions between Commonwealth countries just a bit. Parents couldn't immigrate to Australia because they were short 5 points, but no problem immigrating to the US under Trade-NAFTA.

That's the thing, there's no Commonwealth entity to loosen it up, it's up to the countries themselves. Aussies got the reputation for some of the toughest immigration criteria, Aussies decide on whether they want to loosen or tighten it.

I'll just comment on this because as far as I can tell it's a weird & illogical system. If you want to immigrate & have a skill, it's about knowing which angle to take it. I know immigrates who are here because of corporate sponsorship. Or because they extended a working/student visa. Or because they have a trade/qualification & agreed to work a no. of years in a specific state. The system makes no logical sense, but if you want to move here it's more a question of how then whether you can. That probably makes little sense? But hopefully....

[Loud Whispers]

I once supported labour quite fervently but I'm not quite sure what labour is right now. I think whatever direction labour picks, whether it be going back to new labour (heh, going back to the new), or going further left, they just have to pick a direction and stick with it. Consistency is key! Personally I wouldn't all that mind if labour split if the lesser left parties were capable of forming a united opposition, but they're not really doing so well with that so far. Libdems could fill that English role, not now, but in around 10 years time they might be able to get a new run once people have forgotten about their absolute mauling. Libdems tended to do well in the past when labour and tories drifted off in two opposing directions, they may be able to recover again in future.

I wouldn't mind if, at the very least, they loosened up immigration restrictions between Commonwealth countries just a bit. Parents couldn't immigrate to Australia because they were short 5 points, but no problem immigrating to the US under Trade-NAFTA.

That's the thing, there's no Commonwealth entity to loosen it up, it's up to the countries themselves. Aussies got the reputation for some of the toughest immigration criteria, Aussies decide on whether they want to loosen or tighten it.

I'll just comment on this because as far as I can tell it's a weird & illogical system. If you want to immigrate & have a skill, it's about knowing which angle to take it. I know immigrates who are here because of corporate sponsorship. Or because they extended a working/student visa. Or because they have a trade/qualification & agreed to work a no. of years in a specific state. The system makes no logical sense, but if you want to move here it's more a question of how then whether you can. That probably makes little sense? But hopefully....

Yeah that makes sense, as in the post makes sense. Just to make sure I understood you correctly, you're saying that if you're moving for a career you have to pick a working/student visa/get corp. sponsorship/sign an agreement but if you're moving in for residency the limiting factor is practicality (housing and supporting yourself) vs being permitted entry?

[Helgoland]

Naah, he's just a nationalist who's bad at rationalizing. If he was German he's probably be one of the Schlussstrich crowd and complaining about all the Turkish criminals stealing our jobs.

Ah yes, dey tuk er jerbs.
I'm quite consistent, and explain my rationalizations - if there is any miscommunications providing I have the time I'm happy to go over it. Also in Britain the group you're looking for is Romanians not Turks; I had quite the laugh when one of my friends, son of gypsies, told me of how three Romanians had ripped out all of the copper and lead in his roof while he was away and the only person who reported it to the police was an 11 year old Indian girl with the gonads of a bison. It was quite possibly the most daily mail thing I've ever heard happening in real life since the last time with the south-asian stalkers in my area and the preachers with their kids on the streets.

Do note the 'if he was German' bit - I was talking to my fellow kraut Antsan, so I considered the example appropriate.
Consistency is a bare minimum requirement for rationalizations - what I meant was that your rationalization was lacking elegance and advanced intellectual veneer, making it rather transparent and, to be frank, uninteresting. If you would stop spouting falsehoods about the EU, I'd happily ignore all of your nationalism.


A tangent: Do you guys know Brecht's Kinderhymne? It was a candidate for unified Germany's national anthem:

Spoiler: Anmut sparet nicht noch Mühe (click to show/hide)

Anmut sparet nicht noch Mühe
Leidenschaft nicht noch Verstand
Daß ein gutes Deutschland blühe
Wie ein andres gutes Land.

Daß die Völker nicht erbleichen
Wie vor einer Räuberin
Sondern ihre Hände reichen
Uns wie andern Völkern hin.

Und nicht über und nicht unter
Andern Völkern wolln wir sein
Von der See bis zu den Alpen
Von der Oder bis zum Rhein.

Und weil wir dies Land verbessern
Lieben und beschirmen wir's
Und das Liebsten mag's uns scheinen
So wie andern Völkern ihrs.

Spoiler: Ad hoc translation (click to show/hide)

Spare neither grace nor labour,
Neither passion nor intellect.
That a good Germany may bloom,
Just like another good country.

That the peoples won't go white with fear,
As when confronted with a robber,
Instead holding out their hands
To us as well as to other peoples.

And neither above nor below
Other peoples we shall want to be
From the sea to the alps
From the Oder to the Rhine.*

And because we improve this country,
We love and protect it.
And it may appear to us the dearest
As theirs to other peoples.




*This is a direct reference to 'From the Maas to the Memel, from the Etsch to the Bend' from the obsolete first stanza of the Deutschlandlied, which was the anthem between 1922 and 1945. The old version describes Germany in its pre-1914 borders, giving it a _very_ revisionist vibe. Brecht's version in contrast manages to exclude my home town from Germany, so it's pretty much the opposite of imperialist

[wobbly]

If your moving in for residency the limiting factors are: do you speak english? will you be able to support yourself? etc., Just take what I say with a grain of salt, I never had to move here, I was born here, it's my understanding of the system. If you have a trade/degree/diploma & speak english it's ridiculously easy to get in, it's just a matter of how

[Graknorke]

It's not that with a trade or demanded qualification it's easy to get it; it's absolutely required (unless you are already unreasonably rich enough to support yourself forever).

[Loud Whispers]

Do note the 'if he was German' bit - I was talking to my fellow kraut Antsan, so I considered the example appropriate.
Consistency is a bare minimum requirement for rationalizations - what I meant was that your rationalization was lacking elegance and advanced intellectual veneer, making it rather transparent and, to be frank, uninteresting.

I'm not trying to make an exciting play of passions I'm just trying to state my transparent thoughts.

If you would stop spouting falsehoods about the EU, I'd happily ignore all of your nationalism.

You're havin a laff

A tangent: Do you guys know Brecht's Kinderhymne? It was a candidate for unified Germany's national anthem:

Spoiler: Anmut sparet nicht noch Mühe (click to show/hide)

Anmut sparet nicht noch Mühe
Leidenschaft nicht noch Verstand
Daß ein gutes Deutschland blühe
Wie ein andres gutes Land.

Daß die Völker nicht erbleichen
Wie vor einer Räuberin
Sondern ihre Hände reichen
Uns wie andern Völkern hin.

Und nicht über und nicht unter
Andern Völkern wolln wir sein
Von der See bis zu den Alpen
Von der Oder bis zum Rhein.

Und weil wir dies Land verbessern
Lieben und beschirmen wir's
Und das Liebsten mag's uns scheinen
So wie andern Völkern ihrs.

Spoiler: Ad hoc translation (click to show/hide)

Spare neither grace nor labour,
Neither passion nor intellect.
That a good Germany may bloom,
Just like another good country.

That the peoples won't go white with fear,
As when confronted with a robber,
Instead holding out their hands
To us as well as to other peoples.

And neither above nor below
Other peoples we shall want to be
From the sea to the alps
From the Oder to the Rhine.*

And because we improve this country,
We love and protect it.
And it may appear to us the dearest
As theirs to other peoples.



*This is a direct reference to 'From the Maas to the Memel, from the Etsch to the Bend' from the obsolete first stanza of the Deutschlandlied, which was the anthem between 1922 and 1945. The old version describes Germany in its pre-1914 borders, giving it a _very_ revisionist vibe. Brecht's version in contrast manages to exclude my home town from Germany, so it's pretty much the opposite of imperialist

I like this one more:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spare neither child nor unborn,
Neither hope nor integrity.
That a good Europe is torn,
Just like another calamity.

That the peoples won't grow white with fear,
As when confronted with a robber,
Instead holding out their spears
To us as well as to other peoples.

And neither above nor below
The great Others we shall venerate
From the sea Cthulhu sleeps,
In the sunken city of R'lyeh.*

And because we sing  the loudest,
Our machinery rings the proudest.
And it may appear to us the dearest
Merkelli-li... Merkelli-li... Merkelli-li...

Yeah let your actions corroborate with your words lest you just be another Democratic Republic of Democracy and Freedom.

[MarcAFK]

"That the peoples won't grow white with fear,   " 
"White people" : triggered.   
I remember people saying that line was a conspiracy to brainwash the white majority into thinking they were inferior everytime they hear the anthem.

[wobbly]

It's not that with a trade or demanded qualification it's easy to get it; it's absolutely required (unless you are already unreasonably rich enough to support yourself forever).

Yes & No. 1 of my work mates is from Bangladesh. With a qualification much better then the job we both work. It's, the BS involve is something I won't try & explain, it's a situation where it's easy enough to get in, it's just how your treated & what you'll do for work on the other side that gets tricky, & I don't know enough to explain properly.

[Loud Whispers]

Spartans arrested by China, it is unsure how many salads they sold.
Ai Weiwei traveling to Yurop.

[SirQuiamus]

I like this one more:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spare neither child nor unborn,
Neither hope nor integrity.
That a good Europe is torn,
Just like another calamity.

That the peoples won't grow white with fear,
As when confronted with a robber,
Instead holding out their spears
To us as well as to other peoples.

And neither above nor below
The great Others we shall venerate
From the sea Cthulhu sleeps,
In the sunken city of R'lyeh.*

And because we sing  the loudest,
Our machinery rings the proudest.
And it may appear to us the dearest
Merkelli-li... Merkelli-li... Merkelli-li...

To shoot down a European is to kill two birds with one stone, to eliminate at the same time an oppressor and an oppressed.

Perhaps oppression is something that Europeans simply cannot live without: When we are not busy oppressing people in third-world countries, or people from third-world countries, we are happily oppressing each other – and even ourselves – for want of better victims. This psychological quirk is apparent in my troubled relationship with the EU: My previously unshakable belief in the Holy European Unity is being shaken, and I am overcome with guilt and resentment for being the oppressed oppressor with a stake in every political cock-up within the borders of the Union. Furthermore, I cannot shake this paranoid feeling that I am unwittingly oppressing myself with impunity, but surely that cannot be the case because I am unquestionably being victimized by me, all the time. We cannot save the EU from EU until we have saved ourselves from ourselves, but – hey, that's not fair! I started it, not me!

[Sheb]

A nice article about Sakaashvilii's start in Odessa. The guy might be trigger-happy sometime, but you have to admire his commitment to rooting out corruption. He's bringing in civil society, plans to introduce a whole new police force by next year, replace every local admninistrative head and prosecutor by new candidates selected in an open manner.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

A nice article about Sakaashvilii's start in Odessa. The guy might be trigger-happy sometime, but you have to admire his commitment to rooting out corruption. He's bringing in civil society, plans to introduce a whole new police force by next year, replace every local admninistrative head and prosecutor by new candidates selected in an open manner.

Odesa is very lucky to get him. I want him in my region