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[Owlbread]

Unnamed senior MP, I recall reading about a guy who was caught in an entrapment sting in the 90's I think, operated by a tv program or something, he groped an underage actor and made highly inappropriate comments etc, the police buried his name and removed all evidence of who it was from the media because he was a serving mp, until recently he still was a serving mp. I believe his name was Ken.

Not Ken Clarke, surely?

[Grim Portent]

It always puzzles me that people defend others when they commit crimes, especially ones like pedophilia. You'd think they'd throw them into the grinding wheels of justice as soon as they found out, out of a combination of civic duty and moral disgust if nothing else.

Even from a political perspective it strikes me as better to denounce and testify against party members who commit any wrongdoing than cover it up and risk being seen as complicit in their activities.

[MarcAFK]

Oh that's right, the Guy is being charged right now  for slander.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3168279/Child-actor-invented-claims-groped-Tory-MP-Ken-Clarke-undercover-investigation.html
Now this story since the 90's has gathered enough underground momentum to be a rather common conspiracy theory about so called 'high profile paedophile rings and government coverups" however all the evidence is coming out now showing that such things did and probably do still exist.

[Owlbread]

Oh that's right, the kid was thrown into prison for slander.  (decades later) Edit:(2 days ago)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3168279/Child-actor-invented-claims-groped-Tory-MP-Ken-Clarke-undercover-investigation.html

Opportunists like that making false allegations is of a great help to the real abusers/criminals in power. Unfortunately the ones on the previous page are accused by multiple people of assaults.

[MarcAFK]

Theres some epic conspiracy stuff here, David Cameron was in charge of the tv studio who purchased the supposed footage of Ken making the assault, the footage vanished, claims of harassment and death threats to those involved, who all claim there was no footage, etc. It's all horrible and even if it's bullshit theres no denial that horrible stuff has been buried.

[Sergarr]

Time for scheduled reminder that Cameron said that "Britain is too “passively tolerant” and should not leave people to live their lives as they please just because they obey the law".

Move along, citizen.

[Graknorke]

Well, on more britpol news, Corbyn is on track to win the Labour leadership, and some members are very concerned about that.
To me, this just shows that those people have no interest in advocating a left-wing position. They support the idea of protecting the Labour party as an entity by becoming Tories-lite. A complete waste of time if you ask me. I actually welcome the strength that the left would get by Corbyn leading Labour, even if it means the party probably doesn't win the next election. Trade unions and demonstrators and the like actively trying to combat austerity is far better than just settling with having a bit less.

[Loud Whispers]

I don't really get why a dude from Uganda should get the vote. After all, according to your own argument LW, he doesn't have a stake in Britain?

Because they're a commonwealth citizen obviously. A commitment to Britain is one to the commonwealth; we've got large numbers of Indians, Pakistanis, Afro-Caribbeans, Ugandans down to South Africa and Anglos from across the globe who have been a part of Britain 200 years ago just as they still make up a large portion of the UK now. Their stake in the country is real, so I really don't see a problem with this. I don't see commonwealth nations as foreign nations in the same sense as I see European nations as foreign nations; there is a shared heritage that is worth more than Europe.

I didn't expect to see such a violent resistance to EU from LW.

Why? I've been one of the go-to "I don't think the Queen bloody allows it" Euroskeps ITT for quite some time.

Oh well, the more is EU being destroyed from inside by Euroskeptics supported by people like LW, the easier it will be for Russia to *influence* the EU/ex-EU members. After all, united they stand, divided...

The last time Europe was divided it became the centre of the world. Now it stands "united" and everyone hates each other, the continent is a stagnant mess of dilapidated provinces and far from being able to stand up to Russia united the EU has been inept and incapable, failing in the Mediterranean and in the East. The Europeans haven't even dealt with Russia in a unified way. Do you fear the EU Sergarr? The British troops in Poland and the Baltics are there because of Britain, not the EU - or if you want to rephrase that, they are there because of Russia, and I will be damned if I support any European nation throwing away their sovereignty and their arms if it is done in the name of killing slavs; no foe is worth such pointless degradation. And bloody hell, with hindsight it is easy to see how the EU expanding eastwards was going to bring Europe into conflict with Russia; yet all the same, there were those disillusioned fools sitting on their high chairs saying Putin was not going to unleash his neurosis. The EU will bring us into conflicts no one wants with capabilities it does not have.

Loud Whispers, the Commonwealth and Irish citizen thing excludes most EU and non-EU immigrants. The point about permanent citizenship still stands.

That is my point; get British citizenship.

I also think that is inherently worse than just a blanket ban on non-subjects because:
1. It's very neo-Imperial
2. It suggests the Irish are in some way British and not "foreign", unlike a Polish person
3. It denies Commonwealth countries of full nationhood/independence

1. There are no legal obligations thrust upon any of the commonwealth nations by a supranational entity... Unlike another group of nations caught under a certain organization.
To undercut all subtlety I'm talking about the European Union. I'm calling the European Union an Empire whilst the Commonwealth was everything it should have been. A common wealth (it's in the name) of cooperative nations with shared values trading together but not trying to rob everyone of sovereignty that helps everyone get visas, jobs, residency and other such useful efficiencies that bring the nations closer together without trying to duct tape them into one state.
2. The full name of our country is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Not foreign, unless they're ROI - even with the ROI it's special, note for example that ROI citizens that enlist serve as the same as Brits with the same pensions, terms of service and all.
3. Now that is just bizarre. The commonwealth of nations, a collective of independent nations - is being denied independence by its resident citizens in Britain being able to vote in the nation that is their home? And the EU, actually denying countries their independence and nationhood - this is ok? Pardon, but what? Has  the Queen been forcing laws through the Commonwealth's parliaments whilst I wasn't looking? Is the pound sterling forced upon anyone in the Commonwealth? Are there strives to seize control of any Commonwealth nation's borders? What of their Parliament's power. Is there a Commonwealth parliament, or commission that has supremacy over their nations? Commonwealth military? What of a Commonwealth flag? Commonwealth bank? When one Commonwealth nation is in dire straits does Westminster get to decide anything about austerity? Does it get to force other nations to pay for it? Is there a high court of the Commonwealth?
No every time. The commonwealth plays sports together, eases movement through streamlined visas (without forcing any nation to throw away their borders!), opens up jobs with joint nation programs (when pro-EU people bring up that a quarter of our NHS relies on immigrants for a large number of its services they neglect to mention they are Commonwealth and not EU). And we could also use it to reopen far deeper trade links with economies that are actually growing and not shrinking with countries we actually have links with (outside my house there is Canada Water, Jaimaica Road, Spice Island and so on for Pete's sake) but we cannot because of the EU.

Why should a Fijian immigrant who never took British citizenship get to vote but not Christian Allard?

Because they're of the Commonwealth.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Perhaps I should post an update on the growing allegations of a paedophile ring operating in the British House of Commons during the 1970s, 80s and early 90s. Here is a list of the establishment paedophiles that seem to have operated together as part of the same ring of abusers. Note: due to the nature of some of the news reports these newspaper links may be NSFW.

Government figures/cabinet ministers -

1. Leon Brittan - Home Secretary (our version of the Minister for Internal Affairs)
2. Nicky Fairbairn - Solicitor General for Scotland
3. Rhodes Boyson - Minister of various positions e.g. Local Government, Northern Ireland, Under-Secretary of State for Education, advocate of corporal punishment in schools, homophobe and anti-gay rights campaigner
4. Peter Morrison - Parliamentary Private Secretary to the Prime Minister (Thatcher)
5. Keith Joseph - Architect of Thatcherism, Secretary of State for Education
6. William van Straubenzee - Junior minister for Education and Science (under Ted Heath's Conservative government)
7. Peter Hayman - Deputy director of MI6 (of James Bond fame, the British CIA), leading civil servant with his fingers in literally every single pie
8. Michael Havers - Lord High Chancellor of Great Britain

Non-Tory politicians -

Cyril Smith - Liberal MP for Rochdale, influential back-bencher, Liberal chief whip. Abuse allegations suggest he pretty much ruled Rochdale as a kind of Mr. Big.
Unknown members of MI5 - Perhaps not paedophiles but certainly operated as part of the ring, colluding with them to protect the Tory government
"Others" - Look at any report on the internet and Labour MPs are mentioned, along with Northern Irish ones, but never named. There are allegations going around at the moment about a certain Labour MP who has not been named who liked "young ragamuffins" i.e. vulnerable boys and has been abusing for decades.

Celebrities -

Jimmy Savile - The first disc jockey in Britain, TV personality, Tory donor, marriage counselor for Prince Charles and Lady Diana and one of the most powerful men in Britain, also abused at least 300+ children
Likely others - I have heard Gary Glitter's name come up once or twice and it's not inconceivable that if Savile was at Elm Guest House (part of the WM ring) then others were too

It seems that the Thatcher years were a golden era for very powerful paedophiles in Britain. You may even say that the country was under their thumb - I should point out that the police are investigating a claim that a certain Tory MP (who could it be, I wonder) strangled a child to death and ran another over in his car deliberately. This isn't even everything - this is just the stuff that has actually been in the papers. I read stuff all the time that name Ted Heath and even Lord Mountbatten as paedophiles operating in Jersey where police seem to have found a mass grave of children outside a children's home. These are unsubstantiated though and new stuff comes out all the time. The point is this is just the surface - the deeper you go the worse it gets.

Worst one for me was when the police WERE investigating Leon. Then he told them he wasn't a pedophile and they were like 'k' and just stopped searching.

[Antsan]

You've got some strange ideas about what having a stake in something means.

[Helgoland]

Naah, he's just a nationalist who's bad at rationalizing. If he was German he's probably be one of the Schlussstrich crowd and complaining about all the Turkish criminals stealing our jobs.

[LordSlowpoke]

the turks are stealing all the jobs though

just a week ago i saw a bunch of turks drive up to a bakery, disassemble it, throw it onto trucks and drive off in the general direction of southeast while blasting terribly cringy rap

they're probably going to drag that shit to istanbul with our proprietary pretzel production machinery and make billions of liras

thank you based tusk

[Helgoland]

Did they maybe look like this?

[wobbly]

I don't really get why a dude from Uganda should get the vote. After all, according to your own argument LW, he doesn't have a stake in Britain?

Because they're a commonwealth citizen obviously. A commitment to Britain is one to the commonwealth; we've got large numbers of Indians, Pakistanis, Afro-Caribbeans, Ugandans down to South Africa and Anglos from across the globe who have been a part of Britain 200 years ago just as they still make up a large portion of the UK now. Their stake in the country is real, so I really don't see a problem with this. I don't see commonwealth nations as foreign nations in the same sense as I see European nations as foreign nations; there is a shared heritage that is worth more than Europe.

Yeah I don't know, apart from usually liking UK tourists & sharing common values I don't feel any loyalty to the commonwealth & I imagine it's the same for Canuks (Canadians).

Loud Whispers, the Commonwealth and Irish citizen thing excludes most EU and non-EU immigrants. The point about permanent citizenship still stands.

That is my point; get British citizenship.

I disagree with most of the rant, but this point I'll agree on. Generally the difference between citizenship & residency is the right to vote. Some other stuff, but if you chose not to become a citizen you pretty much chose not to vote in elections. You want to vote? Fill out the paperwork, say the words. It's meaningless crap to me, but it's what you do "if" you want to vote.
   

[Owlbread]

Well, on more britpol news, Corbyn is on track to win the Labour leadership, and some members are very concerned about that.
To me, this just shows that those people have no interest in advocating a left-wing position. They support the idea of protecting the Labour party as an entity by becoming Tories-lite. A complete waste of time if you ask me. I actually welcome the strength that the left would get by Corbyn leading Labour, even if it means the party probably doesn't win the next election. Trade unions and demonstrators and the like actively trying to combat austerity is far better than just settling with having a bit less.

I'm actually really looking forward to Corbyn possibly winning the Labour leadership, if only for the reason that he is the best hope we have of Labour electing a leader who might end the Bain principle (if the SNP ever propose anything in WM, abstain because the SNP are beneath us because they're a parochial historical accident that will go away by the time of the next election) and then we can actually have a working opposition to the Conservatives. Right now the SNP are the opposition to the Conservative government, Labour under Harriet Harman just abstain on everything (even when the SNP aren't involved) and barely even bother showing up to vote.

I don't know what Corbyn's positions are on Scotland. In my wildest dreams he would turn around and say "Scotland's lost, stop trying to target the SNP's seats. Let's just concentrate on the English working class and those that are feeling the full weight of Tory austerity and try to win them back with social-democratic politics. We can then build a progressive alliance across the Isles." That is a wild dream indeed though - but Corbyn trying to hold the SNP to account from the left would be no bad thing. The SNP need to be kept on track so that they never take voters for granted like Labour did.

[Antsan]

Naah, he's just a nationalist who's bad at rationalizing. If he was German he's probably be one of the Schlussstrich crowd and complaining about all the Turkish criminals stealing our jobs.

My point is, how does someone living somewhere entirely else with a different government and stuff have more of a stake in what happens in Scotland than someone who actually lives there? I just cannot wrap my head around the concept.