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[XXSockXX]

The latest negotiations were about hastily getting some cash to delay the problems for another month or 2 anyway. Most of that stuff isn't gonna help long-term-wise, though they do have lots of VAT exceptions.

[mainiac]

Although in all fairness, the Greeks have a tendencies to not follow on their reform commitment.

Greece has made massive reforms in what money goes where, the concrete thing that can be quantified.

When people leave money behind then they enter into the realm of political wishful thinking.  And that's where the stupid starts.  You get shit like people acting like ignoring changes in the trade balance and talking about culture in trying to explain what happened to the unemployment rate.

[Sheb]

Actually agree with you on that one.

[Owlbread]

A Confederate flag incident in East Belfast, Northern Ireland is now being treated as a racist attack. The flag was put up outside the house of a young (13 year old) black football player and his family and left to fly until the boy's coach actually removed the flag himself. The PSNI (Northern Irish police) were well aware of it and did nothing about it. I heard on social media (from a black NI journalist) the quote from PSNI was along the lines of "it's just a piece of material".

Spoiler: I believe this is the coach taking the flag down. (click to show/hide)

The flag was likely put there by local far-right Loyalists/Unionists who I hear have been flying a few Confederate flags in recent days alongside their Loyalist banners, Union Jacks and Israeli flags.

Spoiler: This is the kind of thing I mean. (click to show/hide)

[Loud Whispers]

What a strange selection of flags to fly

[Owlbread]

What a strange selection of flags to fly

It's not strange when you think about it. Here's a list of flags you may find flying, and if you do find them this should tell you what they mean:

Union flag - Shows their support for Northern Ireland being a part of the UK and not a part of Ireland.

Loyalist Banner (the St. George's cross with the red hand/crown) - this flag represents their community uniquely and affirms their loyalty to the Crown. Irish nationalists object to this because the red hand is originally a native Irish symbol and thus see its appropriation and use by Loyalists as colonialism and territorial theft encapsulated in a flag. I don't think Loyalists see it along those lines though, and if they do it's just another excuse to piss off the Irish.

Scottish flag - their ancestors were Lowland Scottish Protestant fundamentalists/radicals and they want to express that heritage, both in solidarity with Scottish Protestants and in opposition to the idea that they're in any way ethnically Irish.

Confederate flag - They're racist/white supremacist, anti-immigration, shows solidarity with similar minded people in the South who are largely descended from Northern Irish Protestants (hilariously called "Scotch-Irish" in America).

Spoiler: A non-racist way of NI Protestants expressing such solidarity can be seen in the numerous President James Buchanan-type murals that can be found across the region (click to show/hide)

Israeli flag - This is pretty much flown in complete opposition to the Irish Republicans' historic relationship with Palestine, e.g. IRA and PLO. It's also flown to express hatred of Muslims/Arabs and also to show support for Israel which has a history very similar to NI. The final reason is because some Northern Irish Protestants see themselves as one of God's lost tribes, a sort of view that dates back to Lowland Scotland where Protestant fundamentalists (Covenanters) saw themselves as God's chosen people to bring Presbyterianism to the world.

Paramilitary flag (UVF, UDA etc) - Shows support for a particular terrorist organisation. Not necessarily a member.

I should add that when I was last in Carrickfergus I saw every single one of those flags flying apart from the Confederate Flag which is a recent addition.

[smjjames]

Sounds like they're very... identity confused.

[Owlbread]

Sounds like they're very... identity confused.

They're not confused at all, they have a very clear idea of who they are and where they're from. A bit too clear, if you get my meaning... you know, to the point that it's insufferable.

[Loud Whispers]

What a strange selection of people

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Confederate flag - They're racist/white supremacist, anti-immigration, shows solidarity with similar minded people in the South who are largely descended from Northern Irish Protestants (called "Ulster-Scotch" in America).

Minor quibble: Ulster-Scotch is only used Over There. In America, it's Scotch-Irish because comeon what's an Ulster is that some kind of medical condition oweooooooo~

I have to say, I'm always fascinated by that flag being used outside of the South. It's weird when the Northern scum do it, so it's about quadruple weird when Finnish rednecks and NI patriots do. I consider it evidence to my hypothesis that the CBF has taken on a general anti-establishment, anti-government association of its own over the past century. It truly is the "Rebel" Flag.

[Sheb]

Or a general racist/white nationalist view.

[Owlbread]

Minor quibble: Ulster-Scotch is only used Over There. In America, it's Scotch-Irish because comeon what's an Ulster is that some kind of medical condition oweooooooo~

Oh yes, my apologies. "Scotch-Irish" is even worse! Don't let them catch you calling them "Irish" in any way, shape or form. Never mind the fact that Protestants in the North in the 1700s and 1800s regularly referred to themselves as Irish and were active participants in early Nationalist rebellions...

Spoiler: Clarification on my own (potentially controversial) views on the CBF, unrelated to European politics (click to show/hide)

I have to say, I'm always fascinated by that flag being used outside of the South. It's weird when the Northern scum do it, so it's about quadruple weird when Finnish rednecks and NI patriots do. I consider it evidence to my hypothesis that the CBF has taken on a general anti-establishment, anti-government association of its own over the past century. It truly is the "Rebel" Flag.

Specifically a sort of "right-wing" rebel flag that can be flown against perceived stuffy political correctness.

It's unfortunate though, I actually greatly disagree with the blanket bans on ebay and Amazon and so on and if I was from the Southern USA I would probably have my own confused relationship with it and the history of the CSA as a whole.

Taken out of context I don't see it as a fundamentally racist flag, unlike the Stars and Bars or the Bloodstained Banner. This is because the flag was not the flag of government but rather the flag flown in battle. To an extent I actually see the battle flag as a flag representing the "good" in the Confederacy rather than the bad. The kind of stuff that makes you admire Robert E. Lee and the whole "rebellion" thing, their bravery in battle/secession and the idea that Southerners are their own people with their own rights and history.

It's just unfortunate that it has been appropriated by pretty terrible people, like the St. George's Cross in England. I don't think it should be flying outside a government office, not unless you fly a number of others, but it shouldn't be shunned either.

I should also add that black slaves weren't brought to America under the CBF, they were brought there first under Union Jacks and others. I agree with Spike Lee that slavery was a holocaust on Africans, I would even go further to say that it was many times worse, but if you're going to ban the CBF because of what that "represents", ban the British flag, along with Spanish and French flags too at the very least.

If you fundamentally disagree with me and wish to debate further, I encourage you to PM me so we don't flood the Eurothread with more American invasions.

I should point out though that the most successful far-right British Nationalist party at the moment - Britain First - was actually founded in Northern Ireland because it was able to make use of a seam of British nationalism that is unusually concentrated there. I don't think they or others have ever really managed to exploit that to its true potential though, partly because the successful moderate Loyalist parties have already adopted socially conservative/right wing views and policies e.g. the DUP and UUP.

[SirQuiamus]

"Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right."

I have to say, I'm always fascinated by that flag being used outside of the South. It's weird when the Northern scum do it, so it's about quadruple weird when Finnish rednecks and NI patriots do. I consider it evidence to my hypothesis that the CBF has taken on a general anti-establishment, anti-government association of its own over the past century. It truly is the "Rebel" Flag.

True enough. Most people around here don't seem to realize the racist connotations, considering the flag a generic symbol of edginess, mostly associated with edgy music. I swear I've seen left-wing punks wearing it almost as often as right-wing ones.    

[Loud Whispers]

A rise in sharia marriages has prompted fears that polygamy is illegally being carried out in the UK. (without paywall). It's amazing that after this, 7/7, the Trojan horse plot, the Rotherham rape gangs, the Bristol rape gangs, the Telford rape gangs, Oxfordshire rape gangs, Derby rape gangs, the female genital mutilation scandals, a soldier beheaded, cadets set on fire, sharia zones, modesty patrols, shariah courts, more Britons joining ISIS than the reserves, those ISIS fighters returning to Britain, girls signing up to be Jihadi brides, clerics running recruiting for ISIS and even charity spokespeople caught out as advocating supporting brothers in Syria on the Jihadist side of the war? It's one thing to ignore a problem, another thing to deny it - but to cover it up? To not even do your bloody job? To do the opposite of your job?! Truly beggars belief that it's not enough for one to bury their head in the sand, that they need to rub sand into the eyes of everyone else.

It's a modern thing that jokes and reality have become indistinguishable but this is really taking the cheese on my cake. Well, more than the usual cheese on the cake. In more mundane news Austrians also mulling over an Auxit after a petition put the prospect of an exit from the EU into their parliament floor.
Europe is in a tragic state. Some bloke said before the elections "on the wire" which turned out to be a landslide victory, that the tories were going to win because Britain's Jews overwhelmingly preferred Cameron to Miliband, and that which way they inclined was in general a good indicator for how things would turn out. And he was right! And looking at Europe, her Jews are getting out of dodge in Eastern Europe, Italy and France especially. The UK is the usual refuge for Yuros when the mainland has gone to shits, and this is no exception; French Jews are moving to the UK as readily as Israel and North America. But all the same, British Jews are also leaving Britain.... I'd prefer that to be ticking the other way, if Miliband is anything to indicate.

[Graknorke]

A rise in sharia marriages has prompted fears that polygamy is illegally being carried out in the UK.[/url].

Read this in the news this morning, and still don't understand why it's a problem. If they're not legal marriages then why should I care?