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[Helgoland]

Merkel's already said no to an extension of the current program, by the way. I really don't get the Greek proposal though: Are they saying anything besides 'We want more credit'?

[miljan]

So is this the start of the end of EU? I sure hope so in the long run.

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/opinion/article25777102.html

[ChairmanPoo]

I hope it is the start of changes in the EU, rather than the end.

[IcyTea31]

I'm not going to get involved in this discussion, but I can't help but be amused at the emphases on the document. It's as if they had the document ready with lines for dates and country names, then filled the form after the crisis came knocking.
"On behalf of ________, I hereby present a request..."

[mainiac]

I hope it is the start of changes in the EU, rather than the end.

I doubt it will happen.  Germany has spent five years telling itself that it shouldn't give an inch.  Any changes requires reversing the German stance.

[Sergarr]

I hope it is the start of changes in the EU, rather than the end.

Gorbachev was saying the same thing, almost right before USSR self-destructed.

[Helgoland]

Not giving an inch? Have you looked at the debt relief Greece has already gotten?


Anyway, new developments!

- Martin Schulz, president of the European parliament, comments on Tsipras' letter as follows: "Mister Tsipras has written a letter which says what he wants. It would be good if he'd also reveal what he's willing to do.'
- Other governments' reaction is also lukewarm at best.
-Greek businesspeople are practically begging Tsipras to make a deal. The restrictions on money transfer are hitting businesses even harder than the people.
- Many Greek (opposition) politicians are starting to campaign for a 'yes' vote, among them ex-prime minister Papandreou and Athens' mayor Kaminis.
- S&P has downrated the big Greek banks to 'partial default'.
- Juncker has talked about 'important things happening in Athens' that would produce 'results which do not align with the articles [the present journlists] have written today'. Mysterious.

[Sheb]

Yeah, I must say I find Helgo's intransigeance on the subject a bit worrying, as he's a really smart and reasonable guy. Shows you the direction the German electorate is going.

Although he does have a tendency to advocate colonialism....

[Owlbread]

Nicola Sturgeon's characteristically moderate take on the Greek referendum. She warns that if EU leaders keep saying a No vote would mean Greece leaving the single currency that may just strengthen the No camp's support. She calls for an eleventh hour deal that gives greater regard to the interests of the Greek people, keeping them in the euro but also with less austerity. Debt restructuring, that sort of thing.

EDIT:

I think the sort of thing that drives the Nazi caricatures is this, Helgoland:

*And they used the fairly submissive term 'bitten', indicating a significant difference of power between the two parties. That could just be German media being German though.

I know you're recognising it as "German media being German" but if "being German" means talking about how your weak, puny opponent is submitting to the dominant, benevolent, great Teutonic power/authority, almost as though they've been conquered, that doesn't exactly come off well.

[Helgoland]

Well, after five years of Nazi caricatures you tend to lose your goodwill. Why should we help Greece at all, when there's so many countries that have it so much worse? Even in the EU! Why should Bulgaria or Slovakia lend money to Greece when their standard of living is way, way below even post-Tsipras Greece?

An article on the subject. Mind you, the WELT was originally intended to be a right-wing intellectual paper, and to this day they have succeeded at the first, but not the second. It's a perspective worth considering though.

Ninja: Eleventh hour? This is a couple seconds to midnight!

[mainiac]

Why should we help Greece at all, when there's so many countries that have it so much worse?

Because Greece's problems are caused by being in a currency union with you.  For the umpteenth time.  It's the cost of having a goddamn currency.

You want to drive a car?  You buy insurance that protects reckless drivers.
You want to put money in a bank?  You pay for inter bank institutions that protect bad banks.
You want to have a monetary union?  You protect the debt of nations in the unions who made bad spending choices.

[ChairmanPoo]

Eurogroup telephone conference is over, without agreement. Next attempt tomorrow morning. We'll see.

[smjjames]

Haven't they already passed the deadline where they have to choose whether to default or have no choice but to default?

[Owlbread]

Haven't they already passed the deadline where they have to choose whether to default or have no choice but to default?

Well, Nicola Sturgeon said the following:

The deadline for payment to the IMF may have passed but the IMF has the option of not reporting that default for 30 days. That time and space should be used to the full.

[Sergarr]

Ah, the infamous "straus ostrich strategy".

Man, this is terrible.