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[smjjames]

Countries do irrational stuff all the time -just look at how the USA managed to talk itself into invading a secular democracy because an unrelated Islamist terrorist based 3000 km away had attacked them - Russia is no exception.

Bush is an exception in himself.

He's not. Like his father before him, and like Obama after him, George W. Bush pursued wars that had little to do with public interest.

Fairly sure that neither older Bush nor Obama have tried to literally take over a country and hold it for a better part of a decade.

Bush Sr. had no plans to (that I'm aware of) and Obama inherited the situation from the Bush jr adminstration. Obama was actually trying to get us out, but the whole MidEast situation imploded (or maybe exploded would be a better word).

Also, Iraq was hardly a democracy then. Secular? yes, democratic? no

[lijacote]

"Pursued wars" is now synonymous with "invasion and permanent occupation"? It's not. And for all of Obama inheriting the situation, for all of his talks, for his damned Nobel peace prize, he has never stopped flirting with war, and he has no qualms with perpetually harassing and murdering the population of foreign nations. Drones, assassinations, mass surveillance. If the American public was less opposed to so-called conventional war, to "boots on the ground", I'm sure he would go for that. What would be better for the military-industrial complex, for imperialist aims of weakening enemies while bringing your own business to replace theirs in weaker, vulnerable countries? Obama's administration keeps on sending troops to foreign countries in de facto situations of war. No amount of nice words will erase that.

On George Bush the older, we have this delightful history of peace. Just like Obama, and all of the recent presidents of the United States, he has absolutely no qualms with pursuing war when it's in the interest of the ruling class at home. None at all.

Here's Obama declaring de facto war on Syria. Completely unlike Iraq, this situation.

[Loud Whispers]

americans pls stop occupying europol thread

[smjjames]

Well, it IS a 'war on terrorism', only thing is that it's not a specific nation or government that we are fighting (that is, the traditional definition), it's a group that ignores borders.

And of course, we keep getting pulled into the mess that is the Middle East.

americans pls stop occupying europol thread

*MEDDLEMEDDLEMEDDLEMEDDLEMEDDLEMEDDLE*

[Loud Whispers]

[FREEDOM intensifies]

[miauw62]

We're all afraid of a Russian invasion, but meanwhile the Americans are invading our threads

[LordSlowpoke]

We're all afraid of a Russian invasion, but meanwhile the Americans are invading our threads

this is why we need federal europe

[lijacote]

A global empire has nothing to do with Europe. In fact, Europe exists outside reality. Not to mention OUR political leaders are lovers of peace and of the working class, and definitely not deceptive. Nor are they in a rush to join NATO, which is definitely not run by the US.

Enough irony to give me poisoning.

[LordSlowpoke]

good thing that unreal country you live in has socialized antidotes m8

but thanks for clarifying that americans having at least 3 discussion threads for american business is not enough, what with progressive having joined the bunch

[Dutchling]

please no marx in glorious atheist europe thread thank you

[TD1]

But Marx was both European and an atheist...

[Owlbread]

We're all afraid of a Russian invasion, but meanwhile the Americans are invading our threads

this is why we need federal europe

If the United States, like Russia or China is an evil force (as I think it is) then by creating another evil force like a Federal Europe in the name of our own personal safety we're going to lose sight of who we are.

[Dutchling]

yeah but it will be our evil force

[lorb]

We're all afraid of a Russian invasion, but meanwhile the Americans are invading our threads

this is why we need federal europe

If the United States, like Russia or China is an evil force (as I think it is) then by creating another evil force like a Federal Europe in the name of our own personal safety we're going to lose sight of who we are.

why do you assume federal eu would be an _evil_ force?

[Dutchling]

id say it being evil is a lot more likely than it being any sort of force