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[Sheb]

So your point is that they WERE believing the TV, until the economy entirely collapsed?

[Helgoland]

Yeah other than the genocide and starting the apocalypse the Nazis were all right

Well, it explains our ongoing fascination with them... Just go through the SPIEGEL covers of previous years. That magazine has the nickname 'the assault rifle of democracy', and it still has more Chaplin moustache than your average Mel Brooks movie.

[Guardian G.I.]

So your point is that they WERE believing the TV, until the economy entirely collapsed?

1989-1990 Soviet TV wasn't that propaganda heavy, if I recall correctly, so it wasn't caused by TV alone - it was a collective illusion that everything should be better overseas (and that the USA ain't so bad) caused by the general ineptitude of the Soviet state in the 1980s.

[Helgoland]

Oh, there's the same thing in the ex-GDR. Now they vote for the successor of their former opressor and form populist right-populist movements.

And we still give them money. Why do we keep doing that?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

In the 1990s, Russian television was under control of pro-Western liberals - it constantly droned about the horrors of communism and how the Western world is superior to Russia in all respects. If Russians are so gullible they'd believe everything Channel One says, why the liberal propaganda didn't affect them in the 1990s?

Russian state owned Television in 1990s wasn't liberal at all. It broadcasted  almost the same shit as it is today.

Neo-Fascists in Moldova\Georgia\
Genocide of innocent Serbs (about early 1990s Yugoslav events, not about 1999)
Mysterious Foreign powers supporting Chechen Rebels
WW2-cult

and more, and more, and more. They were more careful in not openly calling the West bastards who dream about destroying Russia but it is only because criticizing someone who gives you money to survive is not a wise idea.

[mainiac]

I still wonder why many Western documentaries (especially old English ones) are so focused on the actions (and I'd even say are clearly sympathetic) towards Nazi Germany when they describe the Eastern Front. I suppose it's the legacy of the Cold War.

EDIT: slightly clarified my position.

Um.... WTF  Where the fuck did you get that idea

[Antsan]

Because when you ignore all the Jew-killing and people-exterminating the rise and fall of Nazi Germany makes for a pretty awesome story: The country rises from the depths of defeat, united by a common idea  burning in their hearts - breaking down the defenses of their old enemies without much effort, achieving in a couple weeks what others took years to do - and then taking on the giant country to the east, a place with vast and incredible reserves of industry and population, ruled by a dictator and an idea the same way - and it almost won...

Only that the Germans were suffering famine at the end of the war, too. Which is a direct consequence of Germany going to war.

[Guardian G.I.]

I still wonder why many Western documentaries (especially old English ones) are so focused on the actions (and I'd even say are clearly sympathetic) towards Nazi Germany when they describe the Eastern Front. I suppose it's the legacy of the Cold War.

EDIT: slightly clarified my position.

Um.... WTF  Where the fuck did you get that idea

By watching old Western WW2 documentaries on satellite TV - Viasat History used to show them many years ago.

[Sheb]

Well, I could imagine a documentary being sympathetic toward the plight of some German soldiers (Stalingrad was even less fun for them), but toward the Nazi regime? I don't remember ever seeing that.

[Helgoland]

Because when you ignore all the Jew-killing and people-exterminating the rise and fall of Nazi Germany makes for a pretty awesome story: The country rises from the depths of defeat, united by a common idea  burning in their hearts - breaking down the defenses of their old enemies without much effort, achieving in a couple weeks what others took years to do - and then taking on the giant country to the east, a place with vast and incredible reserves of industry and population, ruled by a dictator and an idea the same way - and it almost won...

Only that the Germans were suffering famine at the end of the war, too. Which is a direct consequence of Germany going to war.

That's what makes the whole story palatable! The fascination of evil is balanced by the knowledge that 'crime doesn't pay'.

[Antsan]

Heh, if only. I hear "But at least Hitler built the autobahn" way more often than anything about how bad the famine was, e.g. his accomplishments inlands are emphasized above the damage he did. Even the damage others did is emphasized above that. Normally he's stylized as someone who may have caused everyone else big harm but "at least he cared about Germany... or something".
In short: I really wish that actually was the narrative.

[Sheb]

I wonder how much your arguments reflect the East/West cultural divide.

[mainiac]

By watching old Western WW2 documentaries on satellite TV - Viasat History used to show them many years ago.

I have never ever seen anything on TV casting the Nazi cause as righteous.  Nazis form a convenient punching bag in the west, you are allowed to hate them without any shades of gray.

[Helgoland]

I wonder how much your arguments reflect the East/West cultural divide.

It does so very much. 'But he built the Autobahn!' would be enough to be branded a revisionist at the very least over here. Sometimes I wonder if reunification was a good thing...

[Il Palazzo]

I don't know about documentaries, but if you watch early Western-made post-war films (50s-60s) about WWII and compare it to modern fare, you'll notice that on average the German soldier is portrayed much more sympathetically, the Allied side is less glorified, the themes are more about people dealing with forces beyond their control and less about good and evil, heroes and mooks.
The Nazis are always the bad guys, but the balance is different - there's more about regular Germans with a political/ideological fanatic thrown in in there, whereas nowadays it's the other way around.

Try any of the WWII-themed early Marlon Brando films for example (The Young Lions, Morituri). There's similar thing going with the films featuring the Japanese side.

70 years after the war the Nazis appear to have taken over WWII Germany completely.