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[MetalRocks]

She did not inherit the County of Barcelona, ever. I don't know where the hell you're getting that, but it's completely false.

In 1162 Ramon de Berenguer died, so he was not the Count.
In 1164 Alfonso II inherited the County.

No, Alfonso I. He changed his name to Alfonso II when he inherited Aragon.

Wrong. Alfonso II of Aragon inherited the County of Barcelona on 1164, not in 1162. Don't you like wikipedia?
"Alfonso II (1×25 March 1157[1][2][3] – 25 April 1196), called the Chaste or the Troubadour, was the King of Aragon and, as Alfons I, the Count of Barcelona from 1164 until his death"
"Ramon Berenguer IV (Catalan pronunciation: [rəˈmom bəɾəŋˈɡe]; c. 1113 – 6 August 1162, Anglicized Raymond Berengar IV), sometimes called the Saint, was the Count of Barcelona"
So between 1162 and 1164 the Count of Barcelona was Petronila I of Aragón.

When did I say she was Catalan? I said that Alfonso II is Catalan because of his father, not because of his mother. I have no idea where the hell you're getting what you're saying about what I'm saying, because that is nothing of what I said.

You are right, but I would not be surprised if you had said it. Reading so many absurd things makes it difficult to me to accuratedly define them sometimes.

[smjjames]

What about Galica, what's their say in all this?

[scriver]

There are several things I would like to clear up here.

1. The "Count" of Barcelona was a much more than just a count, just like the "Dukes" of Burgundy and Austria were more like kings, the Barcelonan counts were more like dukes. They were heralded by the other Catalan counts as primus inter pares, first among equals, which is the way in which they acknowledge the de facto dominance and sovereignity of the Count of Barcelona while still getting to keep their own titles.

2. The Crown of Aragon does not equal the Kingdom of Aragon. Subordinance to the Crown of Aragon does not equal subordinance to or being part of the Kingdom of Aragon. The "Crown of" term is used to group all territories ruled in a personal union, of which the Kingdom of Aragon was just one territory. A personal union is when two or more separate and autonomous-from-each-other states are ruled by the same person. In this case, the original union between the Kingdom of Aragon and the "County" of Barcelona was such a personal union, as as such the two entities remained separate from each other. Barcelona and the emergent Principality of Catalonia was never part of the Kingdom of Aragon. When the Count of Barcelona inherited the Kingdom of Aragon the title and county of Barcelona was not absorbed into or subsumed by the Kingdom, they both continued to exist beside and apart from each other. The later territories conquered or inherited in under the Crown of Aragon would be added in a similar manner, where they were ruled by the person who also happened to be King of Aragon, but not a part of the Kingdom of Aragon itself. That is the very reason a term other than the "Kingdom of Aragon" was needed to describe the Crown of Aragon.

3. Under these circumstances the Principality of Catalonia would continue to exist an entity separate from both the Kingdom of Aragon and later the Kingdom of Castille (just as the Kingdom of Aragon remained separate from Castille even after the Isabella-Ferdinand union, despite sharing regents) up until 1710-16 when the king decided he wanted one centralized and solidified state under him to which all Spanish territory belonged to.

What about Galica, what's their say in all this?

Galicia is on the other side of the country, so...?

[MetalRocks]

She did not inherit the County of Barcelona, ever. I don't know where the hell you're getting that, but it's completely false.

In 1162 Ramon de Berenguer died, so he was not the Count.
In 1164 Alfonso II inherited the County.

No, Alfonso I. He changed his name to Alfonso II when he inherited Aragon.

Wrong. Alfonso II of Aragon inherited the County of Barcelona on 1164, not in 1162. Don't you like wikipedia?
"Alfonso II (1×25 March 1157[1][2][3] – 25 April 1196), called the Chaste or the Troubadour, was the King of Aragon and, as Alfons I, the Count of Barcelona from 1164 until his death"
"Ramon Berenguer IV (Catalan pronunciation: [r?'mom b?'ge]; c. 1113 – 6 August 1162, Anglicized Raymond Berengar IV), sometimes called the Saint, was the Count of Barcelona"
So between 1162 and 1164 the Count of Barcelona was Petronila I of Aragón.

Actually, no one was count of Barcelona at that time. He was proclaimed Count in 1163, and King in 1164. So, still wrong; she never ruled Barcelona.

Wow. Great. You have a lot of imagination. So according to you and your sources between 1162 and 1164 the County of Barcelona was governed by... NOBODY. All this with the moors knocking on the County of Barcelona's doors. You know, a few years before this, the muslims destroyed Barcelona. But, hey! lets leave Barcelona without a Count and see what happens.
Here, read this:
"Petronila from Aragon (Huesca, June 29 1136 - Barcelona, October 15 1173). Queen from Aragon between 1157 and 1164 and countess from Barcelona between 1162 and 1164 Daughter of Ramiro II the Monk and Inés of Poitiers."
She even made her testament in Barcelona because she ruled from Barcelona (even though she was not the ruler of Barcelona according to you)

[martinuzz]

According to linguists, repetitio can be used to styllistically emphasize certain important parts of a conversation.
However, linguists also agree that this literary style should be used very sparsely, lest it becomes a repetitio ad nauseam, which will lead to the audience becoming so bored of the object of repetition that any further attempt at reasonable inquiry into the matter becomes senseless.

[penguinofhonor]

At this point I just want to see how long it can go on. I'm rooting for both of you!

[Owlbread]

The Stuart kings of England were Scottish rather than English. Therefore, by the same logic, all of England is actually Scottish.

Or how Catherine the Great was actually German, therefore Russia belongs to Germany. (There's a running joke about how Russia's most effective leaders have all been foreigners...)

The Tudor kings of England were Welsh rather than English. Therefore, by the same logic, all of England is actually Welsh.

The Stuart Kings of Scotland were originally Normans from Brittany, rather than Scottish. Therefore, by the same logic...

[LordSlowpoke]

The Stuart kings of England were Scottish rather than English. Therefore, by the same logic, all of England is actually Scottish.

Or how Catherine the Great was actually German, therefore Russia belongs to Germany. (There's a running joke about how Russia's most effective leaders have all been foreigners...)

The Tudor kings of England were Welsh rather than English. Therefore, by the same logic, all of England is actually Welsh.

rip welsh secession plans

you were part of greater wales all along

[Loud Whispers]

The Tudor kings of England were Welsh rather than English. Therefore, by the same logic, all of England is actually Welsh.

THE SHEEP JOKES RETURN

Also, ITT: We argue over who will be annexed first by glorious Rock of Gibraltar

[Owlbread]

rip welsh secession plans

you were part of greater wales all along

Why do you think "England" is now called Britain? There's more truth to what you're saying than you realise.

[Frumple]

THE SHEEP JOKES RETURN

Also, ITT: We argue over who will be annexed first by glorious Rock of Gibraltar

No matter how fervently you call yourself that, the sheep will not be impressed. They've seen the truth, and it 'tis but a woolly pebble.

[Loud Whispers]

And so for all me freedom peeps who actually like democracy (a pox on Sweden D:<) unsurprisingly the blood god is the least trusted figure to lead a pro-EU campaign (even amongst EU supporters) Also, remember when we were briefly debating whether Juncker was deliberately snubbing Cameron, was trying to placate his unelected peers, or merely being honest? It's the former. Let's see if the great docking of Great Britain can be thoroughly undocked.

[Helgoland]

Gentlemen, I believe we have finally found a sustainable replacement for the Russo-Ukrainian flames.

[MetalRocks]

Hey, what do you know, the different Wikipedia pages on the same topic in different languages say different things. I think we've found our problem here. Also, of course she made her testament in Barcelona- she was abdicating her throne to her son, who ruled Barcelona. Why would she do it anywhere else?

The problem is that the Spanish wikipedia pages say more things about Spanish stuff than the English ones.
In the testament of Petronella I (Queen of Aragon and Countess of Barcelona) in 1164 she says: Petronila, «aragonensis regina et barchinonensis comitissa» (Queen of Aragón and Countess of Barcelona), abdicates in his son Alfonso «regi aragonensi et comiti barchinonensi» (the Kingdom of Aragón and the County of Barcelona). In Barcelona, 18 of July of 1164.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Digitalized testament:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1164, juny 18. Barcelona
Peronella, reina d'Aragó, dóna al seu fill Alfons tot el regne d'Aragó, com a conseqüència de la mort del seu marit el comte Ramon Berenguer IV
Arxiu de la Corona d'Aragó. Barcelona. Cancelleria reial. Liber Feudorum Maior, ff. 10c-11a
[Miguel Rosell, 1945, nº 17]. Transcripció efectuada en agost de 2006 a partir d'aquesta edició

Auctoritate legali decretum est ut res donate, si in presenti tradite sunt, nullo modo repetantur a donatore.
Quapropter, in Dei, eterni regis, nomine, ego Petronilla, Dei gratia aragonensis regina et barchinonensis comitissa, uxor que fui venerabilis Raimundi Berengarii, comitis barchinonensis et principis aragonensis, libenti animo et promtissima voluntate, cum consilio et consensu et providencia Ugonis, Dei dignatione terrachonensis archiepiscopi, et Petri, cesaraugustani episcopi, ac Guillelmi, barchinonensis episcopi, et comitis palearensis, atque Petri de Castel Azol, et Deusaiuda, et Petri Ortiz, et Blascho Romeo, et Exemeni de Artosella, et Dodonis de Alchala atque Fortunii Maza et Guillelmi Raimundi, dapiferi, et Guillelmi de Castro Vetulo, et Arberti de Castro Vetulo, aliorumque magnatum, tam aragonensium quam barchinonensium, dono et laudo et concedo tibi, dilecto filio meo Ildefonso, regi aragonensi et comiti barchinonensi, qui in testamento eiusdem viri mei vocaris Raimundus, et omni posteriotati tue omne regnum integriter, civitates quoque et castra, villas et ecclesias et monasteria, terras cultas et heremas, rochas, montes et fortitudines, et aquas, potestates universas, milites et homines, dominationes et senioraticos, tam terrarum quam hominum, et cum omnibus terminis et possessionibus et pertinenciis que ad prephatum regnum Aragonum pertinet, et quocumque modo pertinere debet, et sicut unquam avus et proavus meus melius ipsum regnum Aragonis tenuerunt et habere debuerunt, cum introitibus et exitibus suis integriter, simul cum omnibus augmentationibus et adquisitionibus que, Deo auxiliante, ad prephatum regnum adquirere et habere potueris per omnia et in omnibus, tibi, predicto filio meo Ildefonso regi, omnique posteritati tue trado et solvo et dono, ut melius dici vel nominari poterit humano orde, cum omni sua integritate sine ulla voce et aliqua dominatione inibi a me ullo modo retenta.
Et, ut melius hec mee bone voluntatis donatio firma et stabilis in perpetuum habeatur et teneatur, confirmo propria manu mea et laudo et concedo ordinationem testamenti eiusdem viri mei et ultimam voluntatem suam, sicut idem vir meus, pater tuus, de omni predicto regno et de ceteris statuit et ordinavit in suo testamento, de quo iudicium iureiurando obligatum et corroboratum est a magnatibus suis, ut ordinatio et ultima eius voluntas firma et stabilis nunc et in perpetuum firmiter persistat.
Si autem te mori contingerit sine prole legitima, sequatur ordinatio testamenti eiusdem viri mei, patris tui, inter alios fratres tuos.
Si quis contra hanc huius donationis scripturam ad infringendum venire temptaverit, nullo modo facere possit, sed supradicta omnia in duplo componat, et insuper hoc donum omni tempore sit stabile et firmum.
Actum est hoc in Barchinona XIIII kalendas julii anno Dominice incarnationis M C LXIIII.
Sig+num Petronille, Dei gratia regine aragonensis et comitisse barchinonensis, qui hoc laudo et confirmo et testes firmare rogo.
Sig+num Guillelmi barchinonensis episcopi. + Petrus, Dei gratia cesaraugustanus episcopus. Sig+num Arnalli Mironis, comitis palearensis. Sig+num Petri de Castel Azol. Sig+num Deiusaiuda. Sig+num Petri Ortiz. Sig+num Blascho Romeo. Sig+num Exemeni de Artosella. Sig+num Dodonis de Alchala. Sig+num Fortunii Maza. Sig+num Guillelmi Raimundi, dapiferi. Sig+num Guillelmi de Castrovetulo. Sig+num Arberti de Castrovetulo. Sig+num Bernardi Marcucii. Sig+num Petri Arnalli.
Sig+num Petri de Corron, scriptoris, qui hoc scripsit, cum litteris suprapositis in linea XVI et XVIII die et anno quo supra.

So Petronila was the Countess of Barcelona between 1162 and 1164, as I had said.

[Loud Whispers]

Gentlemen, I believe we have finally found a sustainable replacement for the Russo-Ukrainian flames.

THE CUISINE IN IBERIA IS
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