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[Ukrainian Ranger]

Was it you or Sergarr who refused to even think about the separatists attacking Mariopul? Let's see how it goes...

It is different part of the front.

Too lazy to find an English link so news without links - Ukraine informed OSCE that we are moving heavy artillery back in the area to counter the attack. I suspect it is the beginning of the end of Minsk-2 "ceasefire"

[smjjames]

Was it you or Sergarr who refused to even think about the separatists attacking Mariopul? Let's see how it goes...

It is different part of the front.

Too lazy to find an English link so news without links - Ukraine informed OSCE that we are moving heavy artillery back in the area to counter the attack. I suspect it is the beginning of the end of Minsk-2 "ceasefire"

Pfft, the "ceasefire" never actually happened since people didn't stop firing at each other, which is the very definition of ceasefire.

[Helgoland]

Was it you or Sergarr who refused to even think about the separatists attacking Mariopul? Let's see how it goes...

It is different part of the front.

Sure, but if fighting flares back up to old dimensions, I doubt that it'll stay confined to one front segment.

[Zrk2]

I still find the seperatists getting indignant about the Ukrainians advancing on them hilarious, in a sad way.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I still find the seperatists getting indignant about the Ukrainians advancing on them hilarious, in a sad way.

Pfff... They are mad that Ukrainian government dares to not pay pensions and other social benefits to them. They call this "economical genocide"

[Guardian G.I.]

I still find the seperatists getting indignant about the Ukrainians advancing on them hilarious, in a sad way.

Such sentiment seems to be widespread on both sides of the frontline when shells start flying in their direction.

[Frumple]

Pfff... They are mad that Ukrainian government dares to not pay pensions and other social benefits to them. They call this "economical genocide"

... wait, seriously? They're actually asking pension moolah and welfare from the country they're trying to secede from? Can... can someone else confirm this is a thing that is happening?

And is that normal for these kind of situations or is it as farcical as it sounds?

[Graknorke]

Pfff... They are mad that Ukrainian government dares to not pay pensions and other social benefits to them. They call this "economical genocide"

... wait, seriously? They're actually asking pension moolah and welfare from the country they're trying to secede from? Can... can someone else confirm this is a thing that is happening?

And is that normal for these kind of situations or is it as farcical as it sounds?

Would you like to say that to Scotland? Just because it's Damn Commies who want basic social security doesn't make it a bad thing.

[Frumple]

Okay, rephrase to "violently secede". I'd like to think there's a difference of sorts between scotland and ukraine. No active artillery, for one.

I don't think scotland intends to keep getting money of that nature out the UK after they split, either, do they?

E: Basically the concept of more or less open rebellion/occupation and still asking for welfare from the original government is just...

[Graknorke]

Oh, it's openly violent again. I've lost track of how the ceasefire was meant to be going. Right, sorry.

[Guardian G.I.]

Pfff... They are mad that Ukrainian government dares to not pay pensions and other social benefits to them. They call this "economical genocide"

... wait, seriously? They're actually asking pension moolah and welfare from the country they're trying to secede from? Can... can someone else confirm this is a thing that is happening?

And is that normal for these kind of situations or is it as farcical as it sounds?

The Islamic State-tier hellhole of Ichkeria received Russian state funding in the 1990s, because they were still technically a Russian region. IIRC, they got the money even when they were at war - I might be wrong about that part, though.

[Sheb]

I still find the seperatists getting indignant about the Ukrainians advancing on them hilarious, in a sad way.

Pfff... They are mad that Ukrainian government dares to not pay pensions and other social benefits to them. They call this "economical genocide"

The appelation is ridiculous, but if the local babushkas are in Ukraine, why deny them their pensions? If they're not, why fight to keep Donetsk?

[Helgoland]

Well, they could say they just freeze the pensions to not aid the rebels' war effort. And IIRC there were problems with getting the actual physical money necessary into the rebel territories without losing control of it.

[Owlbread]

The Islamic State-tier hellhole of Ichkeria received Russian state funding in the 1990s, because they were still technically a Russian region. IIRC, they got the money even when they were at war - I might be wrong about that part, though.

I think it's difficult to bypass Russian propaganda over Chechnya but my understanding is slavery of ethnic minorities e.g. Armenians was widespread in the early 90s. I think as a rule of thumb the Chechen government, which was pretty good and had a lot of very decent people in it (murdered by Russians to a man) had next to no control and everything was controlled by warlords. It was much closer to modern Libya than the Islamic State.

[Sergarr]

If we're speaking about Chechnya, then slavery of ethnic majorities e.g. Russians was also widespread in the early 90s in Chechnya. One of the top favorite activities of Chechens at the time was to drive through Russians cities, steal people from the streets, move them back into Chechnya and then either ask for a ransom, or simply use them as slaves.

I also find the claim that a government, that has "next to no control" and have spawned dozens of warlords, was "pretty good", highly dubious.