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[Sheb]

Yeah, Erdogan is happy to let ISIS use his country as a way to fuel supplies. ISIS then let Turkey mostly alone. Kind of a win-win situation, except for everyone who isn't Erdogan or ISIS.

[Helgoland]

Leatra is active on the forums, but I haven't seen him in the politics threads for a while. Quite a shame, apart from our beloved Putinbots, this place if almost boringly Western.

Hey, Ant is from the ex-GDR: Not a Putinbot, but not Western either

And if you give Knit a couple more months, he'll come around, too

[Sergarr]

"International relations" and "trust" are two completely different axises of relationships.

I guess that's the core difference in between our cultures - in Russia, a good promise built on mutual trust is worth much more than a "legally binding treaty".

Like the promise Russia made Ukraine in 1994 to "respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine" if it gave up its nuclear weapons?

Said mutual trust has been destroyed when the Yanukovich was illegally ousted right after he had signed up this agreement with opposition. There's no trust to be had when your partners sign up agreements only to break them the day afterwards.

[Vilanat]

That's a pretty terrible excuse and completely irrelevant.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I've always been secretly sad the forum doesn't have a cabal of tight-knight conspiracy theorist Randroids, every other community seems to.

[mainiac]

Agreements to respect a country's political autonomy dont count if you dont like the results.  Everybody knows that.

[Helgoland]

"International relations" and "trust" are two completely different axises of relationships.

I guess that's the core difference in between our cultures - in Russia, a good promise built on mutual trust is worth much more than a "legally binding treaty".

Like the promise Russia made Ukraine in 1994 to "respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine" if it gave up its nuclear weapons?

Said mutual trust has been destroyed when the Yanukovich was illegally ousted right after he had signed up this agreement with opposition. There's no trust to be had when your partners sign up agreements only to break them the day afterwards.

Wait, so you say it's completely legit to shit all over signed contracts if the trust's gone? Neat, you don't object to permanent NATO troops in the Baltics, ~100km from St. Petersburg!

[Sergarr]

"International relations" and "trust" are two completely different axises of relationships.

I guess that's the core difference in between our cultures - in Russia, a good promise built on mutual trust is worth much more than a "legally binding treaty".

Like the promise Russia made Ukraine in 1994 to "respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine" if it gave up its nuclear weapons?

Said mutual trust has been destroyed when the Yanukovich was illegally ousted right after he had signed up this agreement with opposition. There's no trust to be had when your partners sign up agreements only to break them the day afterwards.

Wait, so you say it's completely legit to shit all over signed contracts if the trust's gone? Neat, you don't object to permanent NATO troops in the Baltics, ~100km from St. Petersburg!

Why yes, I don't object to that. Surely you also don't object to all NATO bases being permanent targets for our nuclear weapons, yes?

[mainiac]

Shit man, why stop there?  Let's just throw all our commercial treaties out the window, confiscate all the money that Russia has abroad, tank their cyber infrastructure and then sit back and laugh as the Russian economy tanks for real.  After all that trusting feeling is gone.

[Sergarr]

I'm not sure for how long are you going to "sit and laugh", because what would happen next after that is no laughing matter. Ballistic missiles can reach every point of the Earth, you see, and in situation like this, the chance of them being used increases dramatically.

[Frumple]

... well, if that's your response, russia's sudden decision to shit on non-proliferation makes more sense. Being able to commit suicide must be pretty important to the national character...

[Helgoland]

Why yes, I don't object to that. Surely you also don't object to all NATO bases being permanent targets for our nuclear weapons, yes?

I'd be afraid of American shenanigans if it was not the case.

I'm not sure for how long are you going to "sit and laugh", because what would happen next after that is no laughing matter. Ballistic missiles can reach every point of the Earth, you see, and in situation like this, the chance of them being used increases dramatically.

Reacting to nonviolent sanctions in such a manner might be a slight overreaction though.

[Sergarr]

I'm not sure for how long are you going to "sit and laugh", because what would happen next after that is no laughing matter. Ballistic missiles can reach every point of the Earth, you see, and in situation like this, the chance of them being used increases dramatically.

Reacting to nonviolent sanctions in such a manner might be a slight overreaction though.

It's less "nonviolent sanctions" themselves and more the things that the government might do in order to compensate for the said "nonviolent sanctions". It's basically the same reason why Ukraine was persuaded by the world community to give up its nukes to Russia.

[Zangi]

I'm not sure for how long are you going to "sit and laugh", because what would happen next after that is no laughing matter. Ballistic missiles can reach every point of the Earth, you see, and in situation like this, the chance of them being used increases dramatically.

Reacting to nonviolent sanctions in such a manner might be a slight overreaction though.

Seems perfectly reasonable.  You've essentially kicked them out of the international social club and looted all of their foreign assets.  Ain't got any reason to hold back anymore.
EDIT: Also, it is blatant economic sabotage in the end.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I'm not sure for how long are you going to "sit and laugh", because what would happen next after that is no laughing matter. Ballistic missiles can reach every point of the Earth, you see, and in situation like this, the chance of them being used increases dramatically.

Reacting to nonviolent sanctions in such a manner might be a slight overreaction though.

Seems perfectly reasonable.  You've essentially kicked them out of the international social club and looted all of their foreign assets.  Ain't got any reason to hold back anymore.
EDIT: Also, it is blatant economic sabotage in the end.

IMO not getting nuked is a nice reason to not start a nuclear war.