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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1780651 times)

Digital Hellhound

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16440 on: May 08, 2015, 10:38:10 am »

-snip-
Fun times ahead with Kokperskusta.

Honestly, this might be the best government ever when it comes to nicknames. KokPersKusta? PersKeKo? Personally, I like 'SSS-miehet' the best.*

*Loosely translated, as this is an English-speaking forum: 'the whole ass full of piss', 'the ass mound'. 'SS-miehet' is how you refer to the Nazi SS in Finnish.
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Russia is simply taking an anti-Fascist stance against European Nazi products, they should be applauded. ¡No parmesan!

lijacote

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16441 on: May 08, 2015, 10:40:27 am »

Nice! I have woken up and looked at the results of elections in UK - nice victory for Tories, UKIP the third most popular party in UK and Labour with LibDems imploding! What more can man want from life? Hopefully this means at least 5 more years of recovering economy for UK.

Finland elections results are also nice, I always liked Finland and True Finns for their strong stance against Greece in debt crisis.
Believe what you will, but the True Finns are every bit as neoliberal as the worst of our parties. They will definitely back the IMF's efforts in draining the public of Greece dry. There is no doubt about it.
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Me miserable! which way shall I fly
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Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell;
And, in the lowest deep, a lower deep
Still threatening to devour me opens wide,
To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heaven.

SirQuiamus

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16442 on: May 08, 2015, 11:03:29 am »

Nice! I have woken up and looked at the results of elections in UK - nice victory for Tories, UKIP the third most popular party in UK and Labour with LibDems imploding! What more can man want from life? Hopefully this means at least 5 more years of recovering economy for UK.

Finland elections results are also nice, I always liked Finland and True Finns for their strong stance against Greece in debt crisis.
Believe what you will, but the True Finns are every bit as neoliberal as the worst of our parties. They will definitely back the IMF's efforts in draining the public of Greece dry. There is no doubt about it.

The yellow press is already cranking out headlines like "Soini is selling us out to Grrreeek Eurothievesss." When a protest party goes to government, that'll be the end of them. It happened to the Finnish Rural Party, True Finns' immediate predecessor, and it will hopefully happen to Soini's band as well. They'll stop being anti-establishment darlings, and turn into corrupt lackeys of the Euro-Imperialist Cultural-Marxist Cluster. And then the whole cycle repeats itself within the next few decades.   
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lijacote

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16443 on: May 08, 2015, 11:10:10 am »

Nice! I have woken up and looked at the results of elections in UK - nice victory for Tories, UKIP the third most popular party in UK and Labour with LibDems imploding! What more can man want from life? Hopefully this means at least 5 more years of recovering economy for UK.

Finland elections results are also nice, I always liked Finland and True Finns for their strong stance against Greece in debt crisis.
Believe what you will, but the True Finns are every bit as neoliberal as the worst of our parties. They will definitely back the IMF's efforts in draining the public of Greece dry. There is no doubt about it.

The yellow press is already cranking out headlines like "Soini is selling us out to Grrreeek Eurothievesss." When a protest party goes to government, that'll be the end of them. It happened to the Finnish Rural Party, True Finns' immediate predecessor, and it will hopefully happen to Soini's band as well. They'll stop being anti-establishment darlings, and turn into corrupt lackeys of the Euro-Imperialist Cultural-Marxist Cluster. And then the whole cycle repeats itself within the next few decades.
Yep. The True Finns are opportunists - they take advantage of the prevailing worries, anxieties and attitudes, and subvert them to their own advantage. They are not for the people, they only claim they are.
Quote from: Another quote, this time from Charlie Chaplin's speech in The Great Dictator
You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure. Then, in the name of democracy, let us use that power! Let us all unite! Let us fight for a new world, a decent world that will give men a chance to work, that will give youth the future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power, but they lie! They do not fulfill their promise; they never will. Dictators free themselves, but they enslave the people! Now, let us fight to fulfill that promise! Let us fight to free the world, to do away with national barriers, to do away with greed, with hate and intolerance. Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men's happiness. Soldiers! In the name of democracy, let us all unite!
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Me miserable! which way shall I fly
Infinite wrath, and infinite despair?
Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell;
And, in the lowest deep, a lower deep
Still threatening to devour me opens wide,
To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heaven.

Caz

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16444 on: May 08, 2015, 11:46:42 am »

Urgh, Conservative majority.

The only reason I can even conceive that could cause this would be panic voting to due to all the 'Labour-SNP' coalition propaganda. Dammit -_-

It's laughable how many Labour voters are blaming the Tory majority on the rise of the SNP.

Labour was just shite and no one voted for them in England, or anywhere. That's all.
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MonkeyHead

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16445 on: May 08, 2015, 12:13:22 pm »

Urgh, Conservative majority.

The only reason I can even conceive that could cause this would be panic voting to due to all the 'Labour-SNP' coalition propaganda. Dammit -_-

It's laughable how many Labour voters are blaming the Tory majority on the rise of the SNP.

Labour was just shite and no one voted for them in England, or anywhere. That's all.

Indeed. though, for me the talking points are as follows:

1) 20 to 30% swings with +10 to 15% turn out in Scotland. Parties worldwide will be looking to see how in the hell they managed that - though a big factor is Labour being shit and the SNP filling the void - socialism is still viable in scotland.

2) LibDem voters seemingly voting for Tories in swing seats. Apparently voting for their nemesis was more attractive than Labour.

3) Labour still being attractive in population centres. Why? Does socialism still have a lingering appeal despite the big leap to the right? A map of electoral district basically colours red the dense urban areas, with a sea of blue elsewhere, save for Scotland of course.

4) The next labour leader - Do they go for someone with more of a left wing approach (Stephen Kinnock) to get back to core Labour principles, or do Labour look to outmuscle the Tories in the "centre" via Chuka Unumma (who is a big fan of a "Blue Labour" approach), or do they take the fight to the SNP via Yvette Cooper? There is no catch all approach. Unumma gives them a fighting chance in England but concedes Scotland, Kinnock will reinforce the heartlands but make no inroads elsewhere, and Cooper will give the SNP some potential trouble but concede the South East of England.

5) UKIP and LibDem - time to call it a day? Or re-brand like mad?

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16446 on: May 08, 2015, 12:18:36 pm »

I wonder how hard Owlbread is still partying. And the most important question of all, is it physically possible to play techno with bagpipes?

It's a shame David Cameron did not rise high over London and cause the world to See. Maybe next time.
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scriver

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16447 on: May 08, 2015, 12:30:25 pm »

Ate you kidding? Bagpipes is like pre-tech techno.
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palsch

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16448 on: May 08, 2015, 01:10:52 pm »

2) LibDem voters seemingly voting for Tories in swing seats. Apparently voting for their nemesis was more attractive than Labour.
Really want to see some post-mortem polling on this to see exactly where the LD voters went. It's hard to put together a clear narrative at the moment.

But if you are talking about LD2010 voters, you are talking about a huge chunk of students who are now falling into the demographic who regularly go Tory. Young professionals/graduates trying to build savings and buy houses, expecting to climb into the higher tax band in the coming years. I don't think the Conservative policies are actually good for this group (which I'm broadly in), especially when it comes to housing, but they sound attractive if you weren't paying as much attention as you did at uni.

3) Labour still being attractive in population centres. Why? Does socialism still have a lingering appeal despite the big leap to the right? A map of electoral district basically colours red the dense urban areas, with a sea of blue elsewhere, save for Scotland of course.
You can put a lot of this on tribalism (which I actually expected to be stronger - you should never see Labour->Tory swing during a Conservative government in my book) and I doubt much, if any is down to ideology. Labour were trying on their fiscal responsibility pants and broadly failing to deliver the red meat to their red supporters.

People who identify with Labour as socialists may well have stayed home, but you should always depend on those who identify as Labour because fuck the Tories.

4) The next labour leader - Do they go for someone with more of a left wing approach (Stephen Kinnock) to get back to core Labour principles, or do Labour look to outmuscle the Tories in the "centre" via Chuka Unumma (who is a big fan of a "Blue Labour" approach), or do they take the fight to the SNP via Yvette Cooper? There is no catch all approach. Unumma gives them a fighting chance in England but concedes Scotland, Kinnock will reinforce the heartlands but make no inroads elsewhere, and Cooper will give the SNP some potential trouble but concede the South East of England.

Scotland is lost and you may as well entirely split off Scottish Labour as a lost cause regional party now. I'd imagine that English Votes for English Laws will see itself bumped up the priority list of the new Parliament, right behind the new Snooper's Charter and alongside electoral district reform. Exactly how it would work (eg, could Scotish MPs could for a majority if they can't vote on confidence issues relating to England? How about budgets?) would dictate how many resources they should dedicate to fighting Scotland as a national party, but with a Conservative majority writing the rules to spite the SNP I can't imagine them being favourable to those north of the wall.

As for which way they will jump, I can't even imagine yet. I've already seen impassioned statements that they were too far left/right and need to take a serious shift to the right/left to compete again. There may be blood in this leadership battle.

5) UKIP and LibDem - time to call it a day? Or re-brand like mad?
UKIP have two major options;

1) Make their sole MP their leader and focus on fighting a referendum with him as their face. This has been pushed hard by many Kipper's I've read as he is considered an extremely smart and personable politician. But, despite being one of the more right wing, slightly scary Tories (yay for climate change denial, guns and Nazi war crimes (!?!), boo to gay marriage, employee rights and the NHS) many consider him too moderate for the rank and file UKIP voters, especially on immigration. If he was the leader it would be to fight a referendum on policy grounds, not any future elections.

2) Find a new Farage. Can't imagine this will work. Rumour has it that UKIP has been held together largely by force of Farage's will. It's unlikely any new leader will be as effective at the task as he is, especially if they shift any further to the right. Having someone who can feed the base of the party what they would be effective in keeping up their momentum, but runs the risk of tearing the party apart and driving away other voters, especially on the run up to an In/Out referendum. I haven't seen a single name suggested in this role.

IMO, the smart bet would be make Carswell their leader and focus on the referendum. Then shift back to Farage as the party chairman or similar, leading into the next European elections. Use those to springboard into the next general election. My hope is they don't and suffer a nice fun BNP style implosion over the leadership and personality conflicts that tend to come with hard right parties.


I'll come back to the Lib Dems after reading some more.



EDIT: Oh wow Survation.
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We had flagged that we were conducting this poll to the Daily Mirror as something we might share as an interesting check on our online vs our telephone methodology, but the results seemed so “out of line” with all the polling conducted by ourselves and our peers – what poll commentators would term an “outlier” – that I “chickened out” of publishing the figures – something I’m sure I’ll always regret.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 01:15:29 pm by palsch »
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Descan

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16449 on: May 08, 2015, 01:20:20 pm »

There is no catch all approach. Unumma gives them a fighting chance in England but concedes Scotland, Kinnock will reinforce the heartlands but make no inroads elsewhere, and Cooper will give the SNP some potential trouble but concede the South East of England.
I think Scotland is gone. Whether they recognize that or not, I don't think they'll make any inroads in Scotland any time soon.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16450 on: May 08, 2015, 01:34:32 pm »

The Scottish Conservatives are in a better relative position than Scottish Laor. That statement alone is enough to see the way things are.
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Frumple

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16451 on: May 08, 2015, 01:35:55 pm »

is it physically possible to play techno with bagpipes?
I've had three or four different tracks in my playlists over the years titled some variation of "Techno bagpipes". And that's without even remotely trying to seek the stuff out. They actually go pretty damned well with your normal techno-inclined styling, imo. Youtube or whatev' would probably pop up several handfuls of examples. Peatbog Faeries in general is close enough I'd suggest 'em if you're actually interested.
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Frumple

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16453 on: May 08, 2015, 02:21:28 pm »

Well, that apparently didn't take long.

tl;dr, it looks like the newly elected government has immediately started looking into shitting on the disabled, in more or less direct contravention to campaign promises. Y'all are going to have a fun half decade :V
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #16454 on: May 08, 2015, 02:26:39 pm »

Woah, UK government sure is sure taking all the shit on their promises in an extremely exaggerated manner lately... first Scotland "devolution", then this?

This is ridiculous.
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