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[Sheb]

Well, not really, a lot of migrants do end up as slave and/or hostages, but the smugglers generally expect you to front at least some cash, so the migrants are either better off than average, or are resourceful enough that they managed to convince friends and family to fund part of their trip.

Helgo, I haven't heard of migrants in the Med being used as mule that much. If anything, the classical modus operandi of "aim a throwaway ship in the general direction of Europe and wait for the Italian navy to rescue it" doesn't lend itself to smuggling.

[aenri]

As for immigration, I like the stance of Australia on this matter:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I wouldn't go so far as to naval blockade, but I would turn away the refugee boats and expediently return immigrants without permits and visas, also revoking permits and visas if you commit offence.
The best solution is to improve their home countries, not to open Europe to more immigrants. I fully believe Africans are capable of governing themselves with great success (though  I can't really think of an example), and that they should stay in their country and work hard to improve it, so they can bear to live there. It is their country after all.

Can anybody explain to me why offering asylum to fugitives is a bad thing? I mean, besides people saying it's a bad thing.

As for giving asylum to fugitives, how can you not see reason to not give them asylum? AFAIK fugitive is a criminal running from justice. That alone should bar him from entering the country. Maybe you meant another word?

[Sheb]

I'm pretty sure he meant asylum seeker. But yeah, you're, right, let's just fix Syria and Eritrea, why didn't we think of that before. 

Also, that talk of simply "turning the boats around" is BS. You find a sinking boat in Italian waters. What do you do? Tow it back to Libyan water and let it sink there?

[wobbly]

As for immigration, I like the stance of Australia on this matter:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can't say I like it. Have a look at the background of that picture, look particularly full? Considering the government here is actively trying to promote population growth for economic reasons it runs counter to logic.

[Antsan]

Then "refugee". You know what I mean.
Also only because someone is a criminal somewhere doesn't mean I think they should be persecuted.

The best solution is to improve their home countries, not to open Europe to more immigrants. I fully believe Africans are capable of governing themselves with great success (though  I can't really think of an example), and that they should stay in their country and work hard to improve it, so they can bear to live there. It is their country after all.

It's always nice to be able to hide in abstracts.

Just to give you an idea why I think the idea "they should fix their own problems" is ridiculous:
Just imagine war breaks out in Europe, like some people here already suggested. No matter who's at fault or anything, just take the scenario that Russia now starts bombing Germany.nicer
I certainly wouldn't get any ideas that I had any chance to fix that problem because, you know, I wasn't able to fix it before I had to fear for my life. Why should I have the resources and capabilities now that I need to fear that tomorrow someone will shoot me without any reason at all? Not to speak of how I didn't really to anything to make the problem worse in the first place. The idea I would have had any input to this is absurd.
I certainly would be in one of the first waves of refugees.

The same goes for refugees from Africa. What do you expect them to do?
Do you expect them to become martyrs? Or do you expect them to suddenly come up with solutions that nobody else in the whole wide world with much more time and resources on their hand could solve?
If they're starving because our stakeholders rob them of their arable land, should they start shooting at them instead of each other?

Hell, if you put it that way, removing the source of their problem might entail coming over to fuck shit up here, because, you know, we are the ones sucking them dry. Them coming over and nicely asking for help seems a lot more sensible in comparison.

As for immigration, I like the stance of Australia on this matter:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can't say I like it. Have a look at the background of that picture, look particularly full? Considering the government here is actively trying to promote population growth for economic reasons it runs counter to logic.

Also this, as I already said. First they complain about old people and then about young asylum seekers. This isn't about how we can't handle asylum seekers economically, this is about xenophobia.

[Helgoland]

The best solution is to improve their home countries, not to open Europe to more immigrants. I fully believe Africans are capable of governing themselves with great success (though  I can't really think of an example), and that they should stay in their country and work hard to improve it, so they can bear to live there. It is their country after all.

It's always nice to be able to hide in abstracts.
-snip-

That's pretty much spot-on. Anyone who says 'the problems in their home countries need to be fixed' should be honest and admit that such a course of action necessarily entails re-colonizing the regions in question, although with better intentions than the first time around. Now I'm not necessarily opposed to that, but it's about as unfeasible politically as a land war in Asia is militarily.

[Sheb]

I vaguely knew about it, but I recently read an article about France's reaction to the boat people crisis of the 70's. At the height of a financial crisis, France accepted and integrated over 120,000 Vietnamese and Cambodian boat people. When there's a will, there's a way...

[Il Palazzo]

As for immigration, I like the stance of Australia on this matter:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That's not their stance on immigration. They're one of the most accepting countries out there with regard to immigration. Right next to Canada. A fourth of their current population was born outside the country.

If anything, the sign is representative of their recent-ish policies of dealing with illegal refugees (the 'boat people') - the detention centres, the automatic refusal of asylum applications if arrived to Australia illegally.
Although it seems more indicative of some hillbilly's personal views.

[Vilanat]

[...]
The work permit thing is a good step in the right direction, but I still don't think it'd be that effective, where would you find jobs for them, that the locals already don't want or need? Because for the most part, this is all unskilled labor coming in, so the most they can do is some sort of physical work (and not services either because I think most don't speak the language).
[...]

That is actually a myth. The people who manage to get as far as Europe are for a big part upper class. I don't have the numbers for the EU at hand, but in Austria (where I have work that involves refugees) 20,4% of those coming here have graduated from university. That is a lot more than the general population (14,6%). It is true that there are refugees with very poor education but on average they are actually higher skilled than the local population. There seems to be a rampant misconception that someone who can't express themselves properly (because it is not their language) is stupid or uneducated or something like that.

That's kinda anecdotal. the statistics regarding the EU as a whole portraits a different picture whereas the immigrants are less educated. more so if you take a bit more data and examine education across all levels and not just university degrees attainment levels.

More importantly, throwing immigrant statistics without taking into account the source countries is meaningless. most of Austria's immigrants are from EU member states and other non member European countries with quite a large representation of the turkish people who are in a completely different situation in their home country so deducting from Austria's immigrants statistics on the state of the recent immigration waves from Libya, Syria, Eritrea and Sudan is simply wrong.

[Sheb]

He was specifically speaking about refugees though.

[martinuzz]

Let's hope some solution is found before Russia sends a 'rescue fleet' from it's new harbors in Crimea

[Sergarr]

Let's hope some solution is found before Russia sends a 'rescue fleet' from it's new harbors in Crimea

Uh, why would Russia sent a 'rescue fleet', to enslave the refugees and sell them to Middle Eastern countries for profit?

[Sheb]

No, Russia will install floating Russian schools for the migrant, then help them land in Malta. Once there is enough of them, Putin will announce that he has to protect Russian speakers and annex Europe. Thanks God our politicians saw through his ruse!

[martinuzz]

No, Russia will install floating Russian schools for the migrant

Swimming schools would be most useful I suppose.

Although, helping the refugees by sending swimming instructors sounds so silly it is more likely something the EU would do

EDIT: related cartoon from today's newspaper: http://www.volkskrant.nl/foto/bas-van-der-schot~p3761404/2948512/

[mainiac]

Let's hope some solution is found before Russia sends a 'rescue fleet' from it's new harbors in Crimea

IIRC turkey doesn't allow any non NATO warships through.