Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

[smjjames]

Murder-suicide? Sounds like terrorism, but I suppose the pilot wasn't Islamic so they used a less aggressive term.

The co-pilot could've easily directed the plane towards one of the major France cities and wreck some major shit. Then it would've been a terrorist attack.

But this one is a murder-suicide.

The cockpit should get its own bathroom, might help some issues of leaving cockpit.

[martinuzz]

I guess a third pilot / security officer on all flights would drive all air companies bankrupt.

[mainiac]

The cockpit should get its own bathroom, might help some issues of leaving cockpit.

You are suggesting adding a cost to air travel to stop something that has happened once in hundreds of millions of flights since the cockpit locks were added.  There are more cost effective ways to save lives.

I guess a third pilot / security officer on all flights would drive all air companies bankrupt.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

We cant guard against every extremely unlikely thing that can kill us.

[Descan]

Like give the pilot a key.

[smjjames]

Like give the pilot a key.

But security risks.....

In all honesty though, the pilot needs a way to get back in if he is locked out somehow.

[Zangi]

The cockpit should get its own bathroom, might help some issues of leaving cockpit.

You are suggesting adding a cost to air travel to stop something that has happened once in hundreds of millions of flights since the cockpit locks were added.  There are more cost effective ways to save lives.

I guess a third pilot / security officer on all flights would drive all air companies bankrupt.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

We cant guard against every extremely unlikely thing that can kill us.

Obviously we MUST PUT IN ONEROUS FEELGOOD SAFEGUARDS TO PREVENT THIS ONE OUT OF ZILLION THING FROM HAPPENING AGAIN!1!1!  plus terrorism and children rahrahrah

Seriously though, a toilet seat would be cheap... and awkward.

[smjjames]

I guess a third pilot / security officer on all flights would drive all air companies bankrupt.

Don't larger airplanes have a flight engineer or something anyway?

[Baffler]

Like give the pilot a key.

This is a sensible solution. He should have had one already, really.  Give one to the co-pilot too, and possibly the flight engineer and third officer if they're present.

Seriously though, a toilet seat would be cheap...

Not on an airplane. There's no extra space they can just slap it down in, it'd take a major refit.

[martinuzz]

This is a sensible solution. He should have had one already, really.  Give one to the co-pilot too, and possibly the flight engineer and third officer if they're present.

He did have a key. Well, a code.
Ever since 9/11, planes have been fitted with locked cabin doors. Now, the pilot (as well as some other flight crew members) does have a code he can enter from the outside, to open it. But.. To prevent crew from being forced to enter that code by terrorists, there is an override for this in the cockpit.
So I can only assume that while the pilot tried to enter the code to regain access to the cockpit, the suicidal co-pilot must have used the override to prevent that.

Sadly, this anti-terrorist measure makes it easier for suicidal pilots to fly into mountains.

[smjjames]

Like give the pilot a key.

This is a sensible solution. He should have had one already, really.  Give one to the co-pilot too, and possibly the flight engineer and third officer if they're present.

Yeah, while people will scream 'BUT, SECURITY! BUT, TERRORISTS!', a medical emergency theory was floated around and that is FAR more likely than someone commiting murder-suicide. Still, what's usually done is that the cockpit is a 'never alone zone', that is, someone is supposed to go in while the pilot or co-pilot goes out for whatever reason.

[mainiac]

A lockout crash has happened once.  Terrorist highjackings have happened a few dozen times.  Inaccessible cockpits are a good thing.

[Zangi]

Seriously though, a toilet seat would be cheap...

Not on an airplane. There's no extra space they can just slap it down in, it'd take a major refit.

I'm not talking about a bathroom.  Carve a hole into the cabin seats and install a removable bucket under it.  Hose it down/empty it between flights.  Or I guess buy something a tad bit more fancy.

[Sergarr]

A lockout crash has happened once.  Terrorist highjackings have happened a few dozen times.  Inaccessible cockpits are a good thing.

From the BBC article:

Other incidents thought to be caused by deliberate pilot action

    29 November 2013: A flight between Mozambique and Angola crashed in Namibia, killing 33 people. Initial investigation results suggested the accident was deliberately carried out by the captain shortly after the first officer (also known as the co-pilot) had left the flight deck.
    31 October 1999: An EgyptAir Boeing 767 went into a rapid descent 30 minutes after taking off from New York, killing 217 people. An investigation suggested that the crash was caused deliberately by the relief first officer but the evidence was not conclusive.
    19 December 1997: More than 100 people were killed when a Boeing 737 travelling from Indonesia to Singapore crashed. The pilot - suffering from "multiple work-related difficulties" - was suspected of switching off the flight recorders and intentionally putting the plane into a dive.

Source: Aviation Safety Network

A good thing? Maybe. But certainly not the best thing.

[smjjames]

Seriously though, a toilet seat would be cheap...

Not on an airplane. There's no extra space they can just slap it down in, it'd take a major refit.

I'm not talking about a bathroom.  Carve a hole into the cabin seats and install a removable bucket under it.  Hose it down/empty it between flights.  Or I guess buy something a tad bit more fancy.

That sounds more like something you'd do in WWII era long-distance flights, lol.

A lockout crash has happened once.  Terrorist highjackings have happened a few dozen times.  Inaccessible cockpits are a good thing.

From the BBC article:

Other incidents thought to be caused by deliberate pilot action

    29 November 2013: A flight between Mozambique and Angola crashed in Namibia, killing 33 people. Initial investigation results suggested the accident was deliberately carried out by the captain shortly after the first officer (also known as the co-pilot) had left the flight deck.
    31 October 1999: An EgyptAir Boeing 767 went into a rapid descent 30 minutes after taking off from New York, killing 217 people. An investigation suggested that the crash was caused deliberately by the relief first officer but the evidence was not conclusive.
    19 December 1997: More than 100 people were killed when a Boeing 737 travelling from Indonesia to Singapore crashed. The pilot - suffering from "multiple work-related difficulties" - was suspected of switching off the flight recorders and intentionally putting the plane into a dive.

Source: Aviation Safety Network

A good thing? Maybe. But certainly not the best thing.

I should note that two of those are from before 9/11.

I wonder if the pilot tried to talk the co-pilot out of the suicide? 8 minutes is a pretty long time for someone commiting suicide to change their mind.

[Descan]

If you're really worried about security, then give the pilot and co. personal radios to contact the tower, and give the tower a door lock over-ride. Codes and such to prevent the whole "You tell them to open up or else!" thing.