Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

A

[smjjames]

Maybe you're thinking of the Armchair General general thread? That one simply sunk due to inactivity.

[Frumple]

More like this one.

[smjjames]

While we're still talking about Greece, heres a new SATW comic on Greece. http://satwcomic.com/brain-escape

[10ebbor10]

The daily mail appears to be upset.

[MarcAFK]

Not sure the relevance to current topics, but I'm surprised to hear this. But apon reflection it makes sense.

[Antsan]

The daily mail appears to be upset.

What the… How can anyone write this and be serious about it?

[mainiac]

The Daily Mail can be serious about anything.  Also, obligatory.

[10ebbor10]

Not sure the relevance to current topics, but I'm surprised to hear this. But apon reflection it makes sense.

Google suggested it as a headline article, and it's tge daily mail, which is relevant enough for me.

[smjjames]

The daily mail appears to be upset.

What the… How can anyone write this and be serious about it?

When I read that, I was like 'why are they making a big deal about something that happened 50 years ago?'

[Loud Whispers]

When I read that, I was like 'why are they making a big deal about something that happened 50 years ago?'

Because it's the 50th anniversary of Churchill's death?

[smjjames]

I'm also American, so, I don't have the same hero worshippy feelings that you Brits have of Churchill.

[mainiac]

I thought the hero worship was stronger outside Britain then inside.  The British kicked Churchill out of office in 1944.  Non-Britons, particularly conservatives, just remember him for the big talk and not for being unpopular enough to lose reelection in the middle of a war.

[TD1]

The daily mail appears to be upset.

What the… How can anyone write this and be serious about it?

By...you know, writing it. Given the circumstances it was written for, they felt they needed a story on Churchill. So, they wrote one.

[Loud Whispers]

I thought the hero worship was stronger outside Britain then inside.  The British kicked Churchill out of office in 1944.  Non-Britons, particularly conservatives, just remember him for the big talk and not for being unpopular enough to lose reelection in the middle of a war.

Not true, but not quite false. Churchill was reelected in 1951. Churchill is a British hero bigger than Robin Hood dunked in Queen Elizabeths - both of them. Churchill's popularity has seen him be posthumously voted the Greatest Briton - above Shakespeare, Darwin, Diana and Brunel. I don't know how popular Churchill is abroad, but I doubt it's as high as it is in Britain. It's safe to say that if you're regarded above any of those four - god damn are you popular.
On the flip side Churchill is also hated by a large number of Academics, Historians, Politicians (though voicing such hatred would be suicide) and London Intelligentsia for various reasons, most centering around his ruthlessness/imperialism/single-mindedness. He's polarizing to say the least, what makes him unpopular to some makes him popular to others. Right now headlines are rolling across Britain simultaneously listing his achievement and exposing his 'dark side.' I've talked to people who thought Churchill was a drunken shit who was incompetent at administrating Britain and people who've thought Churchill was a literal world-saver in charge of an ungrateful Britain.
Simple litmus test:

• Partake in remembrance day? Yes? You'll like Churchill.
• Don't partake? You won't.

[Owlbread]

My trade unionist great grandfather (who built ships for the war effort) absolutely loathed Churchill with every fibre in his being. He remembered him as the man who sent 10,000 soldiers and tanks into George Square in Glasgow to crush the protestors agitating for changes to their working conditions e.g. reducing their then-53 hour working week and helping to ameliorate unemployment.

But yeah, Churchill. An over-praised, racist, vain, self-important, British imperialist, bloated Tory grandee whose one skill in making grand speeches has earned him a place in the hero rankings of Britain despite his marked incompetence as a military leader/tactician (e.g. Gallipoli, later the Norwegian campaign if I remember correctly?) and generally in leading the country outside of war. When the war was over and British working class people needed someone to rebuild their country, much of which lay in ruins, Labour offered the Welfare State. Churchill's answer was some sort of confused mishmash about keeping our imperial territories. I respect him to some extent for the good contributions he did make, but the "greatest Briton ever"? My God no.

I should add that, until very recently, I also partook in Armistice Day commemorations and I have never liked Churchill. I think my great grandfather was the same in that regard as far as I know.