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[Helgoland]

that  violence is to be expected is an undeniable fact.

... the problem with this message is that it's self-fulfilling, helg. If your message, if the general message, is "expect violence", then violence will occur.

I think you're overestimating the pope's influence on jihadists... Though I agree that the mesage ought to have had a more empowering spin: 'Expect violence, but face it head-on; don't be an animal being led to slaughter.' Just like a dissident must expect to be vanished, tortured, and killed, but still isn't to blame for it.
Such an empowering spin would however have run contrary to the pope's other point: That the caricatures in question were indeed disrespectful and ought (in a purely moral, not in a legal sense) not have been printed out of basic decency and respect towards the religion and its adherents. It's the dilemma of all those who disapproved of Charlie Hebdo's behaviour before the attacks, but disapprove of the attacks as well...

[Graknorke]

Instead of latching on to the idea of violence, look a little more closely. What he's essentially saying in the part Mict has so helpfully highlighted is "do not be surprised that someone is offended when you do something offensive." Is that an unreasonable thing to say?

Even though he used a violent example of an offended response, while responding to a question about a violent attack, weeks after said attack occurred? It's not "latching on" when that's the entire point of what's being said.

[Baffler]

I meant in that quote specifically. This phrase.

It's true that you cannot react violently. But, if Dr. Gasbarri, my great friend, says something against my mother, he can expect a punch. It's normal. It's normal. You cannot provoke, you cannot insult the faith of others, you cannot make fun of the faith.

[Helgoland]

Instead of latching on to the idea of violence, look a little more closely. What he's essentially saying in the part Mict has so helpfully highlighted is "do not be surprised that someone is offended when you do something offensive." Is that an unreasonable thing to say?

Even though he used a violent example of an offended response, while responding to a question about a violent attack, weeks after said attack occurred? It's not "latching on" when that's the entire point of what's being said.

Sure, because the pope's statement consisted of just that one sentence, and Francis is widely known to be a violence-inciting fanatic...

[Graknorke]

Instead of latching on to the idea of violence, look a little more closely. What he's essentially saying in the part Mict has so helpfully highlighted is "do not be surprised that someone is offended when you do something offensive." Is that an unreasonable thing to say?

Even though he used a violent example of an offended response, while responding to a question about a violent attack, weeks after said attack occurred? It's not "latching on" when that's the entire point of what's being said.

Sure, because the pope's statement consisted of just that one sentence, and Francis is widely known to be a violence-inciting fanatic...

I meant in that quote specifically

[Baffler]

Alright. If this is how it's going to go I'll just see myself out.

[Helgoland]

Instead of latching on to the idea of violence, look a little more closely. What he's essentially saying in the part Mict has so helpfully highlighted is "do not be surprised that someone is offended when you do something offensive." Is that an unreasonable thing to say?

Even though he used a violent example of an offended response, while responding to a question about a violent attack, weeks after said attack occurred? It's not "latching on" when that's the entire point of what's being said.

Sure, because the pope's statement consisted of just that one sentence, and Francis is widely known to be a violence-inciting fanatic...

I meant in that quote specifically

I wasn't talking about Baffler's statement, but about the highlighted bit in your post.

However, it's 2am in my location, and I'm perfectly fine with people being wrong on the internet. Should any interesting arguments pop up, I'll read them tomorrow.

[Graknorke]

I wasn't talking about Baffler's statement, but about the highlighted bit in your post.

...que? The bit we've been discussing was about violence. We've been talking about the same few sentences.

[mainiac]

Problem is, freedom of expresion implies freedom to offend. Otherwise it's a hollow right.

The pope's job isn't to tell you what you are supposed to do.  His job is to tell you to be a good person.  Him saying that it's a dick move to insult other people's religion is not infringing freedom of speech in the least.

Making even the briefest efforts to actually see what the man believes before judging him you will find:
the pope advocates turning the other cheek.  Also, bears shit in the woods.

But hey, so much more fun to leap to calling him a hypocrite.

[Sergarr]

why i'm arguing on the same side as mainiac

is the world ending

[mainiac]

Dont worry, you are wrong about saying Francis is the best pope in a century.  I will fight to the death anyone who disses Paul VI.  Which would probably make him spin in his grave.

[Graknorke]

How is it not hypocrisy to advocate one thing while personally doing the opposite?

Regardless, this isn't going anywhere. You all think you're right and I know I'm right so what's the point?

[mainiac]

How is it not hypocrisy to advocate one thing while personally doing the opposite?

That would be hypocrisy.

That is not what he is advocating.

If I tell a child "Dont touch the stove or you will burn your fingers" I am not advocating burning the fingers of children.  If I tell a teenager "Dont walk in bad neighborhoods at night or you will get mugged" I am not advocating mugging.  If the Pope tells Christians "Dont incite religious violence or people will get hurt" he is not advocating people getting hurt.

[Graknorke]

Don't be violent but he is violent towards his friends. Unless it's normal to expect to be hit by the pope.

[mainiac]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor