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[Sheb]

It is scary though: this shows a level of sophistication unheard of for a decade. I wonder what the French secret service were doing.

Also, if they're IS-related, Charlie Hebdo is a weird choice, why not target the French state?


edit: Official death toll now 12, including 4 cartoonists.

doubledit: Some of the past cartoons. Most of the cartoonists are dead.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mohamet overwhelmed by integrists "It's hard to be loved by assholes".


Love, stronger than hate


"Chariah Hebdo, Mahomet, editor-in-chief"
"100 lashes if you're not laughing"


Massacre in Egypt: Coran is a piece of shit, it doesn't stop bullets

[smjjames]

It is scary though: this shows a level of sophistication unheard of for a decade. I wonder what the French secret service were doing.

Also, if they're IS-related, Charlie Hebdo is a weird choice, why not target the French state?

Besdies the obvious fact that it's a softer target? Also, CNN said that the Imam leader guy of Daesh told their followers to be unmasked when doing this stuff, and these guys are masked, so it may not even be connected to Daesh.

Still though, yeah, this was a really sophisticated attack, not a lone wolf. I wonder how this got past the French intelligence community. Theres going to be a lot of crack filling after this.

[Sergarr]

It is scary though: this shows a level of sophistication unheard of for a decade. I wonder what the French secret service were doing.

Also, if they're IS-related, Charlie Hebdo is a weird choice, why not target the French state?


edit: Official death toll now 12, including 4 cartoonists.

Because terrorism.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I'm also commenting on how screwed we are if terrorists decide to make European streets open war zones - like the IRA did. 

Because they don't want open war zones touching their families? Seriously, do you think that in the case of widespread violence it will remain one sided?

[Sheb]

What do you advocate? Killing muslims at random in reprisal?

[smjjames]

I'm also commenting on how screwed we are if terrorists decide to make European streets open war zones - like the IRA did. 

Because they don't want open war zones touching their families? Seriously, do you think that in the case of widespread violence it will remain one sided?

The picture Owlbread posted looks like it's out in the countryside though (plus the signs pointing to towns/villages many kilometers away).

[Jopax]

What do you advocate? Killing muslims at random in reprisal?

Don't think he's advocating it but I think it would be a rather likely outcome.

[LordSlowpoke]

hey, muslim extremists going ira would be every right wing party's wet dream

wouldn't be very surprised if islam was treated very terribly the moment anything of the sort happened and the nebulous people gave their consent to it

[smjjames]

You guys seem to be speaking of random killings of muslims as if guns in Europe were as prevalent as they are in the US (which they aren't).

Just speaking from the perspective of an American.

[Helgoland]

Thing is, Muslims are too small a minority to stand a chance in actual warfare. They'd be crushed, brutally.

Not that the terrorists would care. God will know his own, after all.

Ninja: smj, guns aren't as common, but they're availible. Everyone knows someone who knows someone in the US - IRA-style imports wouldn't be hard to organize.

[Sheb]

Except we won't get real warfare? It's not like the UK started randomly shooting Irish, why would this be different?

[Phmcw]

What do you advocate? Killing muslims at random in reprisal?

Maybe we could finnaly try to police the whole country instead of just were it's convenient, restrict immigration at what we can handle, fix the lack of money for the state, reform education so that "from a cité" doesn't translate to unemployable, end the impunity of criminals, start taking reinsertion seriously, reform the justice system so  that peoples are actually judged, reduce corruption so that money actually end up in the right places, manage to get manual labor back in Europe, and stop taking everything north African lightly because "we've powerful and there is no way they could ever be a threath to us"?

I cannot believe how arrogant we're being: peoples are worried about right and left wing terrorism and plots and it's seen as normal, but the moment it's north-afrian it "will go away and we just need to educate them". If that's not entranched supremacism I don't know what it is.

[Owlbread]

The picture Owlbread posted looks like it's out in the countryside though (plus the signs pointing to towns/villages many kilometers away).

The shootings I talked about took place in Belfast though, as well as other cities. The sign is in South Armagh where it was pretty much like a open insurgency with snipers and ambushes. That happened in Belfast too but in South Armagh you might have been driving to buy milk and bread in your local shop and you'd get stopped by an armed IRA patrol (in masks + uniforms etc) who'd want to ask you who you were, where you were from and where you were going and then wave you off on your way.

Because they don't want open war zones touching their families? Seriously, do you think that in the case of widespread violence it will remain one sided?

That's actually a good point, but the violence you're talking about would probably be something like the EDL (English Defence League) doing various reprisal attacks, not the state. They did that anyway after the murder of the British soldier in London.

The open war zones in Northern Ireland were usually in Irish Catholic majority areas (e.g. South Armagh) but that's where they were trying to establish control - creating "No Go Areas" as they were called. The IRA used to control several council estates in Derry for a few years - then known as "Free Derry" complete with armed patrols walking around in the streets with road blocks and everything, doing their own policing and so on. A bit like Donetsk today but on a smaller scale. Islamic extremists aren't trying to make Tower Hamlets into a territory of the Islamic State, however.

You guys seem to be speaking of random killings of muslims as if guns in Europe were as prevalent as they are in the US (which they aren't).

Just speaking from the perspective of an American.

They aren't in public hands to the same degree but in some ways I think we might even be able to get guns on the black market a little bit easier than Americans due to the fact that we're so close to the now-collapsed USSR. After the Eastern Bloc went down and later Yugoslavia all those guns are in European circulation. 

[Sheb]

Phmcw: I don't know where you live, but I know no-one who is more worried of far-left terrorist plots than of islamist terrorists.

[Erkki]

Thing is, Muslims are too small a minority to stand a chance in actual warfare. They'd be crushed, brutally.

Not that the terrorists would care. God will know his own, after all.

Ninja: smj, guns aren't as common, but they're availible. Everyone knows someone who knows someone in the US - IRA-style imports wouldn't be hard to organize.

There are some EU countries with very high numbers of guns per capita (relatively speaking), but IIRC on the average there are much less pistols and so more difficult to conceal. Lots and lots of hunting rifles and shotguns around. But I'm not convinced that even Muslims themselves consider them to be one united minority in most countries but rather groups of minorities with different backgrounds that just happen to share the same religion. Any conflict would probably have a number of smaller groups on both sides and a police as the 3rd.