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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1783460 times)

WarRoot

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12495 on: October 31, 2014, 01:35:31 pm »

Yeah, democracy doesn't stop at the ballot box. He also only got his huge 2/3rd majority because he changed the rules to his advantage.

This isn't simply about some wishy-washy "surrendering to big business". This is a frontal assault on democracy, coming from within the EU. Had Hungary tried to pull that kind of shit while applying to join, they would have been refused accession.
He only got his second 2/3rd majority because of that and even without changing rules Fidesz would have won that election. Democratic traditions are almost non-existent so it's like a post-modernist's wetdream where pretty much anything goes.

Although I really don't understand why the government is called conservative in the article, one would think a conservative government would at least respect the few democratic traditions we got rather than tearing them down.
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mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12496 on: October 31, 2014, 01:50:56 pm »

But because they're already inside the EU, they can do everything, and nobody will do anything!

Or even better - do nothing, like Greece, and get bailed out anyway!

do you even realize how hard greece is being fucked over even though germany and friends could have actually fixed the situation without much issue

Who are you and what did you do with LSP?
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12497 on: October 31, 2014, 01:57:42 pm »

Although I really don't understand why the government is called conservative in the article, one would think a conservative government would at least respect the few democratic traditions we got rather than tearing them down.

Joke Answer: It's the Guardian, anyone they don't like is conservative.
Serious Answer: Conservative doesn't mean democrat. Actually, the meaning of conservative is fuzzy, but Fidesz is part of the conservative EPP, is certainly not progressive, favor a strong state, etc etc... So the conservative label seems to fit.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

WarRoot

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12498 on: October 31, 2014, 02:29:09 pm »

It doesn't mean democrat but it means respecting traditions, keeping the status quo, like taking the constitution seriously rather than brute-forcing into it laws that got repealed by the constitutional court. Favoring a strong state isn't conservative either that's more of a leftish thing. But they are certainly not progressive I give you that.
They are part of the conservative and democratic EPP :P
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Phmcw

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12499 on: October 31, 2014, 05:31:31 pm »

Sheb's joke answer is pretty spot on, though.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12500 on: October 31, 2014, 05:53:18 pm »

It doesn't mean democrat but it means respecting traditions, keeping the status quo, like taking the constitution seriously rather than brute-forcing into it laws that got repealed by the constitutional court. Favoring a strong state isn't conservative either that's more of a leftish thing. But they are certainly not progressive I give you that.
They are part of the conservative and democratic EPP :P

What is considered "conservative" varies from country to country. Conservative just means keeping the status quo, respecting traditions and generally opposing radical reform. Exactly what the status quo that they should be preserving is varies from country to country. There are of course traits common to most conservatives.

In the USA a Conservative may support small government, freedom to bear arms and the ensuring that the USA is a Christian country. In the UK a Conservative may be quite authoritarian - pro government surveillance, keeping guns banned, tough on crime, all about the "big society" thing where everyone has a role, promoting Christian values, less regulation and more privatisation. They can support the NHS in principle,  however (unthinkable in America) - just a very stripped down, mostly privatised one.

As a contrast - the American Conservative might complain about kids not praying in schools enough. In the UK a Conservative would complain about kids swearing on the bus.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12501 on: October 31, 2014, 10:49:14 pm »

Just so we're clear, there's nothing small government about most US conservatives. It's a convenient rhetoric that does not translate to the real.
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12502 on: November 01, 2014, 08:24:25 am »

Well, they want a government small enough to fit in your bedroom.

I've been waiting for years to use that joke.
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Helgoland

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« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 10:14:31 am by Helgoland »
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12504 on: November 02, 2014, 10:30:27 am »

It cannot be worse than what we had in 90s in terms on textbooks. About 50% of those were complete shit. Especially the history textbooks.

Edit: Russia is apparently moving its military into the Donezk region in a fairly open manner. Confirmed not only by the Ukrainian state, but also by independent journalists. Link in German.
Also confirmed by pro-Russian news sources. "Voentorg" is preparing for war...
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WarRoot

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12505 on: November 02, 2014, 11:35:36 am »

Politics and the Russian textbook market. Quite worrying if you think about the implications twenty years down the line.

Nationalization of the textbook market already happened in Hungary. If Putin doesn't step up his game he will be called Russia's big Orbán.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12506 on: November 02, 2014, 12:01:15 pm »

It cannot be worse than what we had in 90s in terms on textbooks. About 50% of those were complete shit. Especially the history textbooks.

Let me guess. That history textbooks said that communists were are bastards?
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12507 on: November 02, 2014, 12:06:13 pm »

It cannot be worse than what we had in 90s in terms on textbooks. About 50% of those were complete shit. Especially the history textbooks.

Let me guess. That history textbooks said that communists were are bastards?
Communists were bastards. But no, that wasn't the reason why they were crap.

The alternative "histories" a la Fomenko and the attempts to put them through as "legit alternatives to the official version" were much, much worse.
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12508 on: November 02, 2014, 12:11:54 pm »

Is Fomenko that guy who though Jesus Christ live in 1000 AD?
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Guardian G.I.

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12509 on: November 02, 2014, 12:14:22 pm »

Apparently, reports claiming recent Russian military involvement in the Donbass are also based on these videos shot by Ukrainian supporters in Donetsk and Makeevka yesterday.
They were reposted by Novorossiyan website Rusvesna.su. Russian blogger Colonel Cassad, who coordinates supply operations for the Novorossiyan forces also confirmed the recent troops movements here. According to Cassad, Novorossiyan commanders expected a major Ukrainian offensive in Donetsk around the 2nd of November, which can explain the troop movements - they were reinforcements for forces on the front line.
Other Russian blogger affiliated with Novorossiya, Putnik, who had pretty good sources on the Ukrainian side of the front line, doesn't report anything about any troop movements.
Novorossiya.su is currently more concerned about today's elections in Novorossiya.

It cannot be worse than what we had in 90s in terms on textbooks. About 50% of those were complete shit. Especially the history textbooks.

When I was in school, I used to take part in local history contests (районная олимпиада по истории) and I got my hands upon an old textbook on history of medieval Belarus that was printed in 1995 (IIRC). I compared it with the textbook I used in school that was printed in 2004 (IIRC). The material concerning the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was practically the same, with the exception of the parts concerning GDL's wars with Muscovy - the old textbook glorified these wars, the new one presented them neutrally. Also, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania ceased to be the "first Belarusian nation state" and turned into a "unified Lithuanian-Belarusian state". And all together, these textbooks were completely differed to Soviet textbooks on the subject.

EDIT:
Politics and the Russian textbook market. Quite worrying if you think about the implications twenty years down the line.

Nationalization of the textbook market already happened in Hungary. If Putin doesn't step up his game he will be called Russia's big Orbán.
Does it mean that Orban is worse than Putin?  :P
If I'm not mistaken, when he brought the Hungarian Central Bank under the control of the government a few years ago, some liberals in the EU parliament compared him to Kim Jong-il.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2014, 12:24:25 pm by Guardian G.I. »
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this means that a donation of 30 dollars to a developer that did not deliver would equal 4.769*10^-14 hitlers stolen from you
that's like half a femtohitler
and that is terrible
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