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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1784482 times)

miljan

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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12332 on: October 26, 2014, 06:05:50 pm »

Alright, so who forgot to close the portal to the clown dimension?
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12333 on: October 26, 2014, 06:38:25 pm »

Lol, 23% for the single largest party may be low in Russia perhaps. And the Best Korea. Where I live, according to latest polls the largest party(by support) has 23,6%. However it is very typical for an alliance of parties, if there is one, to get 40 to even 60%. Its the same in a lot of European countries and as far as I know, in all of the Nordics.

According to the latest polls, in Scotland (despite the referendum loss I still consider it to be a Nordic Country in waiting) the SNP right now are going into a Westminster general election next year with about 42.7% of the popular vote. Their next challenger is Labour who have roughly 27%.

Speaking of which - Scottish politics is going into some very interesting and turbulent times. I'm not actually going to comment on it too much in case I'm wildly wrong. Instead, I'm going to wait until the 2015 general elections, then post in this thread and tell you fellows what exactly went down and where things are going.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 06:56:40 pm by Owlbread »
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Descan

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12334 on: October 26, 2014, 07:10:50 pm »

Honest question: Do you think SNP will lose a large number of seats/votes because of losing the referendum?
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hector13

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12335 on: October 26, 2014, 07:37:12 pm »

Honest question: Do you think SNP will lose a large number of seats/votes because of losing the referendum?

I would say no, it really depends how Westminster deals with giving new powers to Scotland.

If they do what they seem to be doing - nobody was really present in the chambers during discussions on what Scotland was getting, despite a temporary alliance between all three major party leaders during the last week or so before the referendum when they all went to Scotland saying "PLEASE DON'T LEAVE US! WE LOVE YOU!" - then I think the SNP will gain on their present 6 seats. The Labour party seem to have lost a lot of traction in Scotland, at least at Scottish parliament level, and they're the most popular party in Scotland for the British parliament. It remains to be seen if that will translate well to the British parliament, however, as the SNP got a majority in the Scottish parliament last time(despite an electoral system supposed to guard against that  :D) but, like I mentioned previously, only managed 6 seats for the British parliament.

If they give Scotland something substantial, however, it might placate some of the people who voted No because they wanted more devolution, and erode some of the votes the SNP might get. Equally so, the momentum that seems to be heading toward the SNP right now (bear in mind I live in the US, and am following this politics via online nonsense) might peter out between now and May.

The leader of the Scottish Labour party resigned recently, saying that Westminster is risking a lot if they think that because the Scottish people voted to remain a part of the UK, that nothing has changed and they don't need to give Scotland anything. I think she's right.

The Smith Commission are going to publish a paper regarding initial proposals for new powers for Scotland by this Friday, so we'll probably find out then what people think.
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Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12336 on: October 26, 2014, 08:34:40 pm »

That's so stupid.  The whole point of proportional representation is that the parties in parliament reflect the popular support regardless of how the regions vote.

But it's not a proportional but rather a mixed representation. I think the Germans use it too, and every post-soviet country copied it from them :P
Yep, the German system does exactly what you want, maniac. I've yet to hear of a superior one :D
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12337 on: October 26, 2014, 09:33:36 pm »

Honest question: Do you think SNP will lose a large number of seats/votes because of losing the referendum?

Virtually every single political analyst in the country is expecting the SNP to actually gain seats as a result of losing the referendum. They're going to wipe out the Liberal Democrats outside of Skye/Lochaber (that damned Charles Kennedy and his charisma) and the Northern Isles. They'll take Labour seats in Dundee - it's likely that they will wipe out Labour North of the Firth of Forth. As Hector has put it at present the SNP only have 6 seats. If the current polls are correct then it's likely the SNP will have 20+ MPs next year - the best result they've ever had in a Westminster election. They'll probably gain 15+ seats. The big question is over all the Labour heartlands in Strathclyde etc where the electorate actually voted Yes - North Lanarkshire, West Dunbartonshire and Glasgow all had Yes majorities - yet for Labour they're as safe as houses. For how long? Strange things happen in Scottish politics.

Literally the only strategy Scottish Labour has is to try to frame the next election as a choice between SNP seats and another Tory government, or Labour seats and a Labour victory. If they lose the next election to the Tories they will blame the SNP to no end - but I would say if they even get that close it'll be due to an incredible collapse in their vote next year and terrible, terrible leadership from Ed Miliband. Labour have a history of blaming the SNP for their own mistakes of course, like how they blame the SNP for bringing in Thatcher.

Labour don't seem to have a firm grasp of that strategy though. Their leader, despite having won the referendum (allegedly), has just resigned. That's the "strange events" I was referring to earlier, where we don't really know what's going to come next. Labour are totally embroiled in a bloodbath of epic proportions - Johann Lamont, their outgoing leader, claimed London Labour treat Scottish Labour like a branch office, cast up all sorts of dirt and called Labour MPs in London "dinosaurs". Now they have no leader.

You see, the strategy for Labour was to get rid of the sick joke of a talent vacuum that was Johann Lamont after the 2015/2016 general elections where Labour are going to get thrashed. She was going to take all the blame, and they'd be able to put forward a guy like Jim Murphy MP forward for a Scottish Parliament seat where he could replace her. Lamont has thrown a spanner in their works though - she resigned early, now they have absolutely no talent that can come forward and ask questions at First Minister's Questions. Labour needs leadership in the Scottish Parliament and they need it now. One of their wisest MSPs, Malcolm Chisholm, said that if the leadership goes to an MP right now then it will go from "crisis to catastrophe".

This is probably one of the few situations where a party, having lost a massive campaign like the referendum, has emerged on top in the polls and on track to win a bigger victory than they've ever won before. The only question is how big the victory is going to be. I don't want to claim a massive landslide or anything like that though - I have no idea what will happen next year. First Past The Post voting is our enemy at the moment. The SNP could win the popular vote but still not gain a majority of seats because of that. According to this website the SNP are going to take Dundee West, Edinburgh North, Livingstone, Edinburgh East, Falkirk West, Aberdeen North, Aberdeen South, Ayrshire North, Ochil and South Perthshire and Stirling from Labour (10 seats). They will also take Argyll and Bute, Caithness and Easter Ross, Dumbartonshire East, Edinburgh West, Fife North East, Gordon and finally Inverness/Nairn/Badenoch and Strathspey from the Liberal Democrats (7 seats).

But yeah, the SNP aren't in danger of losing ground. The only places that they'd probably lose ground in would be somewhere like my county which has one of the six SNP MPs, despite being very Conservative and voting No by a significant majority. Amazingly, despite the Tory vote increasing, the constituency's SNP majority looks like it's about to increase because the Lib Dem vote has collapsed completely here and so has Labour.

Also - we can pretty much guarantee that whatever "substantial powers" Scotland gets will most emphatically not come from Labour. Their proposals are the weakest of all party proposals:


The above graph is actually wrong because they don't even propose corporation tax devolution. Their only tax devolution was the ability to raise income tax, not lower it (I'm not joking), and even then only raise it in a really specific way that I can't remember. Labour have the most to lose from any devolution of power because they want to control and rule us from Westminster, and they've had their hands turned through devolution. They're terrible, they really are.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 09:56:37 pm by Owlbread »
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12338 on: October 27, 2014, 12:49:40 am »

Wait UKIP is pro-devolution?
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12339 on: October 27, 2014, 04:02:52 am »

Looking at the election results....

I once again want to get an upper age limit set somewhere around 60
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 04:05:40 am by Ukrainian Ranger »
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olemars

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12340 on: October 27, 2014, 04:15:47 am »

Lithuania is about to be independent from russian gas. Up to now all their gas needs have been through imports from Gazprom via russian pipelines, but they're about to start up a floating terminal that will cover all of Lithuania's consumption immediately and 75% of Latvia and Estonia by the end of next year.

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10ebbor10

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12341 on: October 27, 2014, 04:44:09 am »

Theoretically cover or actually cover?
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12342 on: October 27, 2014, 04:54:09 am »

Well, they haven't negotiated contract to buy more than a fraction of their gas yet. In addition to energy security, this terminal is also very important because it gives them leverage to re-negociate better price for Gazprom's gas when their current contract runs out next year. They were being charged way more than the market price for gas.
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12343 on: October 27, 2014, 04:58:02 am »

Looking at the election results....

I once again want to get an upper age limit set somewhere around 60
...

An upper age limit? Really?

"You're 1 year older than this arbitrarily limit, so we strip away your legal powers as a citizen of a country to vote for the rulers of that country!"
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #12344 on: October 27, 2014, 05:11:01 am »

no idea how that makes sense considering owlie was shouting about lowering the entry age thing device
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