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[Guardian G.I.]

Gaddafi was killing his own population, nothing like that happened in Ukraine. Whether intervention in Lybia was ultimately a good idea remains to be seen, but at the time it seemed justified from a humanitarian point of view.
Iraq was basically shit.

Dude, the whole mess in the Ukraine started long before Russia did anything.

The first signs of division within the Ukrainian society appeared in the 1990s, when Crimea unsuccessfully tried to secede. The so-called "Orange Revolution" of 2004 revealed the cracks in the seemingly united Ukrainian nation - it suddenly turned out that the West and the East have completely opposite political values, and to make matters worse, they despise each other for it. After Euromaidan, the animosity between the two parts of the country became absolutely clear. Even if there was no Putin and no Crimea, a country where one part of the country thinks that the other one is either subhuman cattle or Nazis wouldn't stay in peace for too long.

On a completely unrelated note, I love how some anti-Putin articles in the Western media bring up Transnistria as an example of Russia's imperialist policies. Russia in 1992 was definitely an anti-Western imperialist state.

[Sinistar]

Eh, let's be completely fair, a lot of key Western players were just waiting for an excuse to bring Gaddafi down. And while he did some good things, we can't glaze over the (alleged) facts that his regime did oppress it's own people. Was NATO bombing (mind you, it was actually just few NATO member countries involved) a right thing to do? If it was just under a pretense of humanitarian, "save the civilian population from being massacred/oppressed" reasons, I'd go with yes. On the other hand, now Libya isn't really much better off than before...

And Antsan - It was a typical case of media war - pro-Yanukovych sources over-blew the whole thing to the point of Maidan sounding like a second Nazi regime, while some anti-Yanukovych ignored the issue. But the fascist elements in Maidan revolution WERE reported on. Quite in-depth, in some cases, and I'm talking "Western" news sources here.

But yeah, I don't think a lot of people think a war with Russia is a realistic thing, nor do they WANT it (speaking from European, non-Ukraine perspective). At least I hope so. Not only nukes but also... you can't go invading Russia. It's just... big. It's completely unfeasible. I can see limited airstrikes being done but even this - well, you can be sure Russians wouldn't just watch how foreign military planes are bombing their infrastructure. I can't believe anyone in the upper echelon would be crazy enough to pull something like that. Because hell, our country is not a really significant NAT member, but there were protest over whole Iraq deal. Now invading Russia with NATO? You'll have riots on the streets. Something really crazy should happen for any sort of invasion to be a realistic option. Like Russia using nukes, but again, I don't think anyone's crazy enough for that.

I'm going a bit along the agg tangent here, I apologize. Also, feels like I'm replying to old, not anymore relevant stuff with this post. Fast topic is fast.

[Phmcw]

No one want to talk about Krugman's post and the perspective of a ong term recession in Europe?

[Sheb]

Well, I sadly agree with his analysis we're fucked, it's as simple as that.

[Helgoland]

Ah, that. The critical part is the thing about domestic warmongers, which I think is nonsense.

So you think there is no conflict of interest if journalists are working for the government and it's exactly those screaming the loudest how Russia needs to be stopped with violent force? Well, that's good to know then.

You know, this is the leftist hypocrisy that makes me dislike Die Anstalt. If someone who is closely associated with the AG Friedensforschung (basically a propaganda think tank for Die Linke) writes a piece about how we should do nothing, it's fine and dandy, but when someone associated with our current government writes a piece about how we should arm the Ukrainians, it's all of a sudden a corruption of our free press... There's just a whole lot of dishonesty in saying "We need an independent press" and then assigning the label "independent" according to political leanings.
And no, nobody wants to go to war with Russia, even if they want to stop Putin. There are means other than brute force, and even transatlantic warmongering Russia-hating NATO puppets know about them.

Also I don't quite get why the European meddling is the most evil thing since Sender Gleiwitz but the Russian meddling is totally fine...

@Phmcw: Shush, don't stop the Germans from complaining. It's the one thing we're good at!

[MarcAFK]

No one want to talk about Krugman's post and the perspective of a ong term recession in Europe?

I've been wondering, what are the options for depreciating the currency as Krugman suggests?

[Antsan]

@Helgoland:

Also I don't quite get why the European meddling is the most evil thing since Sender Gleiwitz but the Russian meddling is totally fine...

I never said that. I said it was foreseeable and avoidable by the people who are now complaining the loudest.

And no, nobody wants to go to war with Russia, even if they want to stop Putin. There are means other than brute force, and even transatlantic warmongering Russia-hating NATO puppets know about them.

In the end it's about selling weapons (as that's the goal of the arms industry) and you don't need your own country to go to war for that.

You know, this is the leftist hypocrisy that makes me dislike Die Anstalt. If someone who is closely associated with the AG Friedensforschung (basically a propaganda think tank for Die Linke) writes a piece about how we should do nothing, it's fine and dandy, but when someone associated with our current government writes a piece about how we should arm the Ukrainians, it's all of a sudden a corruption of our free press... There's just a whole lot of dishonesty in saying "We need an independent press" and then assigning the label "independent" according to political leanings.

Fine. Then point out these connections. Doesn't make them right anywhere, especially if the message is hate.

[Sergarr]

Also I don't quite get why the European meddling is the most evil thing since Sender Gleiwitz but the Russian meddling is totally fine...

Look at Libya before and after the European intervention.

Their country is still divided into two and the civil war is still going on. After three years, the civil war is still going on.

[smjjames]

Also I don't quite get why the European meddling is the most evil thing since Sender Gleiwitz but the Russian meddling is totally fine...

Look at Libya before and after the European intervention.

Their country is still divided into two and the civil war is still going on. After three years, the civil war is still going on.

Is it the wests fault that Libya is such a divided country? No

[Sergarr]

Also I don't quite get why the European meddling is the most evil thing since Sender Gleiwitz but the Russian meddling is totally fine...

Look at Libya before and after the European intervention.

Their country is still divided into two and the civil war is still going on. After three years, the civil war is still going on.

Is it the wests fault that Libya is such a divided country? No

It is the wests fault because the west thought that overthrowing the single person who kept all the divided tribes in check was a good idea.

[smjjames]

Also I don't quite get why the European meddling is the most evil thing since Sender Gleiwitz but the Russian meddling is totally fine...

Look at Libya before and after the European intervention.

Their country is still divided into two and the civil war is still going on. After three years, the civil war is still going on.

Is it the wests fault that Libya is such a divided country? No

It is the wests fault because the west thought that overthrowing the single person who kept all the divided tribes in check was a good idea.

Was it a divided country before ghaddafi came to power?

[smjjames]

So, it wouldn't have mattered if ghaddafi simply died because the country was divided anyway.

And yes, I know one of his sons could have simply taken the reins of power in that case.

[Owlbread]

Spoiler: This is basically the standard of British newspapers today. (click to show/hide)

It's a spoof but it's horribly accurate. In the last few years I've learned that it's not just the Daily Mail that's like this either; it's infected all the broadsheets too. Scottish broadsheets are full of ex tabloid journalists now anyway; ex News of the World, Mail and Record journalists especially. Maybe it's because the industry is dying (it is here, anyway) and thus the talent pool has gotten a lot smaller.

[smjjames]

LOL geeze. That is such a tabloid article, fit only for the tabloids about the latest celebrity scandal and stuff like that.

If a big name newspaper or news agency that isn't a tabloid did that in the US (well, besides Fox news, but even then, I don't think they'd get that ridiculous), they'd be ridiculed.

Also, I spot at least two instances of copypasting the same image.

Edit2: Make that at least four.

[Graknorke]

Spoiler: This is basically the standard of British newspapers today. (click to show/hide)

Heh, that's a pretty good one, small touches make it I think.
And I have noticed broadsheets taking on a bit of... that as well. I'm just hoping that people don't uncritically accept all of the opinions that newspapers throw at them, like Sun readers seem to.