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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1785179 times)

Baffler

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11715 on: October 08, 2014, 01:01:50 pm »

And compared to Palestinians in Gaza, the Crimean Tatars are in a good, good situation.

Is that honestly the best you can do?

That they aren't getting kicked quite so hard as another group halfway across the world doesn't really do them much good.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 01:09:32 pm by Baffler »
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scrdest

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11716 on: October 08, 2014, 01:20:57 pm »

And compared to Palestinians in Gaza, the Crimean Tatars are in a good, good situation.

Is that honestly the best you can do?

That they aren't getting kicked quite so hard as another group halfway across the world doesn't really do them much good.

Heh, that's just short of saying 'compared to Jews during WWII, they are a bunch of spoiled kids'.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11717 on: October 08, 2014, 04:37:15 pm »

Ukrainian battalions defecting to Novorussiya [skip to around 2:30 in]. That or Russia's sending Battalions, either way Ukraine is getting kicked in the shins.

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11718 on: October 08, 2014, 04:52:15 pm »

[sarcasm] Yeah. Sure. Defecting [/sarcasm]

That news made my day :D
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mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11719 on: October 08, 2014, 10:13:27 pm »

It seems that Russia is determined to issue the harsh sanctions on itself that Europe never rallied around.

Quote
The legislation, though, is amplifying corporate concerns. Russia’s minister of economy, Aleksei Ulyukayev, said just last week that “there is no better way to create capital outflow than passing or even discussing such legislation.”
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11720 on: October 09, 2014, 02:55:57 am »

There are reasons why Russian stock market index is lower than it was in September 2008.

But hey. Those are "abstract numbers" (c)
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11721 on: October 09, 2014, 03:11:23 am »

It seems that Russia is determined to issue the harsh sanctions on itself that Europe never rallied around.

Quote
The legislation, though, is amplifying corporate concerns. Russia’s minister of economy, Aleksei Ulyukayev, said just last week that “there is no better way to create capital outflow than passing or even discussing such legislation.”
"If you cannot stop it, then lead it"
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11722 on: October 09, 2014, 04:28:18 am »

Well, it's not even a stopgap measure, it's a way to hand out cash to Putin's cronies hit by the sanction. It's not like your average Ivan will be any better off because his local McDonalds was seized and given to Ivan McOligarch.
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11723 on: October 09, 2014, 04:47:04 am »

Of course, this law wasn't passed, and probably won't. My guess is that it's the equivalent of their Tea Party making noise. Or a guy that had his French villa stolen and want money back.
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11724 on: October 09, 2014, 05:34:54 am »

I think it is more likely that the law will be passed than not. Putin's friends can't tolerate lost $. And there are two ways to solve that problem: "Nationalization" of Western property or imposing new tax on Russian

Interesting, would Russians rebel if a new law like "from now on half of your salary will be given to *list of Putin's friends*" appeared? I think not
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11725 on: October 09, 2014, 05:56:20 am »

Yes... but what if they stop being subtle? Will that provoke rebellion?

Reminds my favorite joke about Russian Oligarchs

Two Russian Oligarchs speaking:
- We got enough money. Time to think about common people
- I agree. I want two villages of serfs
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11726 on: October 09, 2014, 07:41:51 am »

They've been not subtle before. In 90s.

The Hodorkovskiy's process is the reason why they stopped being not-subtle.

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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11727 on: October 09, 2014, 08:55:39 am »

He was put into jail for a good 8 years.

Here's the wikipedia on him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky

Just look at this shit he pulled:

"His bank Menatep, along with other Russian banks, would hold on to government funds for months at a time in order to speculate on exchange rates and other investments, enriching the bank's owners at the expense of the designated recipients of the government funds. Investment tenders were followed by an even more infamous "give-away" of Russian state assets to select business elites—the loans-for-shares program, which introduced the term "oligarch" to describe the handful of beneficiaries. In the loans-for-shares auctions, the auctioneers were often the same as the bidders—the auctions were rigged and the state knew it. It was during this period that Khodorkovsky acquired the Yukos oil company for about $300 million through a rigged auction. Khodorkovsky subsequently went on a campaign to raise investment funds abroad, borrowing hundreds of millions. When the 1998 financial crisis struck Russia, Khodorkovsky defaulted on some of his foreign debt and took his Yukos shares offshore to protect them from creditors.[13]"

That [13] is "Hoffman, David (2002). The Oligarchs: Wealth and Power in the New Russia. New York: PublicAffairs. pp. 100–126."

Or this:

"In a Foreign Affairs article on the situation in 1998–99, Lee Wolosky, a former counterterrorism official under the Clinton administration, detailed how Yukos "managed to siphon off some $800 million during a span of approximately 36 weeks" in 1999 through transfer pricing, forcing Yukos' Russian subsidiaries to sell oil at a fraction of world market prices to the holding company. Wolosky also described how Khodorkovsky had engaged in massive asset stripping of Yukos subsidiaries following the 1998 financial crisis:

    After three international banks acquired approximately 30 percent of Yukos following a default on a loan to an affiliated bank, Khodorkovsky sought to turn Yukos into an empty shell. He forced it to convey its most significant asset – its controlling position in oil production subsidiaries – to unknown offshore entities. At the same time, he attempted the mother of all share dilutions: by transferring a massive number of new shares to offshore entities he is believed to control.[26]

According to Wolosky, Khodorkovsky and his colleagues, unsatisfied, continued the looting "more directly—by stealing valuable assets, including wells, equipment, and anything else that can be found on an oil field", and between 1997 and 1998, Yukos had plundered $3.5 billion worth of assets. Wolosky further blamed Khodorkovsky to be complicit in two contract killings between 1998 and 1999:

    In June 1998, the mayor of Nefteyugansk was murdered. That spring, he had led a very public crusade and hunger strike against Yukos, protesting the enormous wage and tax arrears that he argued were impoverishing the region ... The mayor had previously sent a secret cable to Prime Minister Sergey Kiriyenko requesting his assistance in the showdown. But the mayor was found dead before Kiriyenko could answer.[26]"

[26] is "Wolosky, Lee S. (March–April 2000). "Putin's Plutocrat Problem". Foreign Affairs 79 (2): 18–31. JSTOR 20049638."


He was one of the most powerful oligarchs in Russia, and Putin has showed the Russian oligarchs what can happen to every single one of them.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 09:01:48 am by Sergarr »
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11728 on: October 09, 2014, 09:13:53 am »

Quote
He was one of the most powerful oligarchs in Russia, and Putin has showed the Russian oligarchs what can happen to every single one of them.
Should they not share with Putin('s friends) and\or have presidential ambitions

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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #11729 on: October 09, 2014, 09:18:11 am »

Does Putin look to you like a person who can even have friends?
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