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[Sergarr]

I consider the open westernization of Syrian rebels as equal to invasion.

When I said "not invade" I mean it. No rebel supporting, no aggressive trade policies, no anything. Pure diplomacy.

So, if trade sanctions are not diplomacy, what is? Glaring at people really hard until they cave in?

Also, your definition of invasion is incredibly self-serving and broad.

Diplomacy consist of talking to people to make them see your point of view and to achieve consensus. This is done through a diplomatic dialog.

Sanctions are not a tool of diplomacy, they're a tool of force. Same about the supporting rebels.

You can never achieve consensus, and thus, can never achieve peace, if you speak in the language of force. Just look at Iraq.

Interesting... Do USA and EU have any diplomatic\economic methods to bring oil prices down and keep them there for a year or two?

They can probably try to influence the Saudis to push the prices super-low, like they did around 1989. Though it might be difficult with the whole region instability...

[Duuvian]

I consider the open westernization of Syrian rebels as equal to invasion.

When I said "not invade" I mean it. No rebel supporting, no aggressive trade policies, no anything. Pure diplomacy.

 

This has worked so well so far.

[scrdest]

I consider the open westernization of Syrian rebels as equal to invasion.

When I said "not invade" I mean it. No rebel supporting, no aggressive trade policies, no anything. Pure diplomacy.

So, if trade sanctions are not diplomacy, what is? Glaring at people really hard until they cave in?

Also, your definition of invasion is incredibly self-serving and broad.

Diplomacy consist of talking to people to make them see your point of view and to achieve consensus. This is done through a diplomatic dialog.

Guess I'm far more cynical than you, then.

[Sergarr]

I consider the open westernization of Syrian rebels as equal to invasion.

When I said "not invade" I mean it. No rebel supporting, no aggressive trade policies, no anything. Pure diplomacy.

 

This has worked so well so far.

The opposite of that has brought only misery and death to all people in the region.
Misery and death, without any hope for better future.

[mainiac]

I consider the open westernization of Syrian rebels as equal to invasion.

When I said "not invade" I mean it. No rebel supporting, no aggressive trade policies, no anything. Pure diplomacy.

And that is exactly my point.  The problem isn't what the west does, it's that the west exists.

[smjjames]

I consider the open westernization of Syrian rebels as equal to invasion.

When I said "not invade" I mean it. No rebel supporting, no aggressive trade policies, no anything. Pure diplomacy.

 

This has worked so well so far.

The opposite of that has brought only misery and death to all people in the region.
Misery and death, without any hope for better future.

Diplomacy hasn't worked too well either.

I consider the open westernization of Syrian rebels as equal to invasion.

When I said "not invade" I mean it. No rebel supporting, no aggressive trade policies, no anything. Pure diplomacy.

And that is exactly my point.  The problem isn't what the west does, it's that the west exists.

Nope, don't see your point. You might as well replace that with the east.

[mainiac]

Nope, don't see your point. You might as well replace that with the east.

My point is that no matter what western countries do, people will blame them for any and all turmoil in the middle east.

[smjjames]

I'm sure there are a lot of people who wish we could just remove all borders in the MidEast and let the people there redraw the borders. Of course though, you might end up with something like the HRE, except without a central controlling power.

[MonkeyHead]

Or a caliphate... oh, wait...

[Helgoland]

let the people there redraw the borders

What people? All the people? Like, democratically? Without any threats or killings or ethnic cleansings? *sniggers*

[smjjames]

let the people there redraw the borders

What people? All the people? Like, democratically? Without any threats or killings or ethnic cleansings? *sniggers*

I was going to type natives, but then thought that would give the wrong impression of what I'm trying to say.

And yeah I know erasing the borders and handing everybody in the region a metaphorical piece of chalk won't solve anything because there are so many fault lines and not much unity to go around,

[Dutchling]

I have the ideal solution:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I like the part where Russia is literally a Gay Pride flag.

[Descan]

Looks like someone got really high and played a game of CK2 to present day :v

[Darvi]

I support Greater Luxembourg.

Wait no I don't. There doesn't need to be even more of the bloody place.