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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1752640 times)

Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10785 on: September 12, 2014, 05:40:13 pm »

I think you guys forget how many problems the US had to work out, especially money wise, after independence. Sure you guys will have problems, but you get the benefit of deciding for yourselves how to fix it rather than those in London telling you how to solve it.

That's it in a nutshell, James.

I could attack each and every post over the last few pages individually, but it would probably be best to just take a more general approach lest I burst a blood vessel in my eye due to straining as I read Mainiac's macroeconomic analysis:

Sergarr and Descan have argued well over the last few pages (giving points I would have given) but an important thing to note is that the other parties haven't really promised anything. The devolution proposals are terrible. I don't doubt that they'd get delivered, of course they would; but compared with full independence or full fiscal autonomy (also known as devo max) they are absolutely nothing. With regard to taxation Labour for instance would only give us the ability to vary tax rates by up to 15p, but we could only cut top rates if all rates are cut to stop us from trying to compete with Westminster. We are thus "neutered" by their proposals. Welfare should also remain almost entirely with Westminster apart from select things related to partisan Labour campaigning goals, like housing benefit, the attendance allowance and the work program. All other pensions and benefits stay at Westminster, same with broadcasting, corporation tax, national insurance, VAT, capital gains tax and air passenger duty (i.e. the stuff that will really make a difference). All of those will be retained at Westminster because Labour are terrible, power hungry wretches like the rest of Westminster. And the fundamental issue with the UK remains - all powers devolved are at the UK's discretion. As Tony Blair himself put it - power devolved is power retained.

What has actually happened is that the British government and the various Westminster parties have rehashed stuff that Douglas Alexander (BT campaign strategist and Labour MP) put out earlier in the year. Nothing is new in their devolution proposals; all they did was say "this is the time table for the consultation - it begins on St. Andrew's Day in October". If the Unionists are supposed to be waving a carrot at us on the end of a stick while they keep a spiked club behind their backs, there's not a lot of carrot and a whole lot of spikes going on here. At the moment they're just ramping up the fear factor as much as they possibly can, trying to scare us into voting No because that's literally all they have left.

For a bit of high-brow discussion of recent economic issues in the independence debate (e.g. the banks supposedly moving south) take a good look at this video with Andrew Wilson, former SNP MSP and now business consultant and political commentator. He also gives a lot of referendum analysis.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 06:11:29 pm by Owlbread »
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mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10786 on: September 12, 2014, 06:03:22 pm »

Feel good platitudes should make for a real good economic policy.  Just hand wave it away, there will be opportunities too!

Currency policy, labor market barriers, trade equilibriums, that can wait till after.  You have more important shit for now.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10787 on: September 12, 2014, 06:14:46 pm »

Feel good platitudes should make for a real good economic policy.  Just hand wave it away, there will be opportunities too!

Currency policy, labor market barriers, trade equilibriums, that can wait till after.  You have more important shit for now.

Mainiac, if you write down all of your concerns in a spoilered post or PM I could take them to some of the various economic experts within the campaign (via email or social media) and get a response for you. Would you like that?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 06:16:37 pm by Owlbread »
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RedKing

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10788 on: September 12, 2014, 06:21:43 pm »

Feel good platitudes should make for a real good economic policy.  Just hand wave it away, there will be opportunities too!

Currency policy, labor market barriers, trade equilibriums, that can wait till after.  You have more important shit for now.

Mainiac, if you write down all of your concerns in a spoilered post or PM I could take them to some of the various economic experts within the campaign (via email or social media) and get a response for you. Would you like that?
No, because that would piss on his chances to piss on the Scottish parade. Much more satisfying to just be a dismissive critic.
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mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10789 on: September 12, 2014, 06:23:37 pm »


No, because that would piss on his chances to piss on the Scottish parade. Much more satisfying to just be a dismissive critic.

If not for pissing on other peoples ideas this thread would be about three pages.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

RedKing

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10790 on: September 12, 2014, 06:24:41 pm »


No, because that would piss on his chances to piss on the Scottish parade. Much more satisfying to just be a dismissive critic.

If not for pissing on other peoples ideas this thread would be about three pages.
Y'know, there comes a point where you're not contributing anything helpful to the discussion. You reached that point about three pages back.
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10791 on: September 12, 2014, 06:41:44 pm »

Do you mean three posts?  ???

I don't get this whole "helpful to the discussion" notion, tbh.  Is there some sort of agenda here?

« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 06:43:15 pm by mainiac »
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Owlbread

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Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10793 on: September 12, 2014, 06:50:13 pm »

Is there some sort of agenda here?
Ayup. Look at that post I made some pages back about the nature of this thread.

Rule of thumb: European politics is much more consensus-heavy than its American counterpart. Same thing goes for discourse, as far as I can tell.
Just... try and be a little less confrontational, and you'll fit right in.
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10794 on: September 12, 2014, 06:55:48 pm »

The Unionists may have received an endorsement from Richard Branson today but at least we've got Groundskeeper Willie, the greatest Scotsman ever to grease himself and fight a wolf.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 06:58:08 pm by Owlbread »
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mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10795 on: September 12, 2014, 07:07:40 pm »

friendship

Ugh you filthy European deviants.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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[CAN_INTERNET]
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

TD1

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10796 on: September 12, 2014, 07:09:53 pm »

You're American, right?

You filthy, gun toting, cruelty loving, hick infested, hopelessly divided United States hypocrite.

*Pushes petrol grenade beneath his bed*

Let's ignore that for now :P

Also, speaking of grenades, Ian Paisley died today.
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timferius

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10797 on: September 12, 2014, 07:10:41 pm »

And now I'm hearing all of Owlbreads post's in Groundskeeper Willie's voice...
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TD1

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10798 on: September 12, 2014, 07:11:30 pm »

Eh.

That wasn't Groundskeeper Willie's voice.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #10799 on: September 12, 2014, 07:17:19 pm »

Also, speaking of grenades, Ian Paisley died today.

Dr. No is no longer with us. Speaking of Americans - if you chaps have ever wondered where the Southern baptist preachers and ministers and firebrands got that tradition from, see it in its native form in Northern Ireland here in the form of Reverend Ian Paisley Sr. MP and also here and here.

Sinn Fein had some interesting reactions. It just goes to show how far we've come from the dark days of the 1970s and 1980s.

Eh.

That wasn't Groundskeeper Willie's voice.

I thought his accent sounded 1% more accurate but it sounded pretty much the same as he always sounds.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 07:22:16 pm by Owlbread »
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