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[Loud Whispers]

In a rather peculiar turn of events, pro-Indie Scots tend to favour posting the poll that doesn't show Yougov Yes leading (the one with undecided in) whereas the ones pro-Uni scots tend to favour posting the poll that shows Yes leading. Motivation I guess?

[Owlbread]

In a rather peculiar turn of events, pro-Indie Scots tend to favour posting the poll that doesn't show Yougov Yes leading (the one with undecided in) whereas the ones pro-Uni scots tend to favour posting the poll that shows Yes leading. Motivation I guess?

Yes. The response I saw from my Yes campaigning colleagues, virtually all of them in fact, was "we need to keep calm and pretend that poll showed us 10 points behind in order to win this and win it well". I didn't see anyone being jubilant, crowing victory or anything like that. Everyone seems extremely cautious. I even saw someone make the point that this could change literally any day; No had at least a 14 point lead just a few weeks ago with YouGov and now that has completely evaporated.

The quote from Jim Sillars, former leader of the SNP and now independent Socialist campaigner for Yes, said this that night on twitter:

"Ahead in polls. Keep calm. No premature rejoicing. Keep canvassing. Only poll matters 18th #indyref"

It pretty much sums it up.

[Loud Whispers]

Also, I think a person linked the article here, but there was an article about someone saying that you may as well vote for independence because this may be the only opportunity for a while. Which is really fucking broken logic.

"If at first you don't secede, try, try again." Most of the Scots I talked to bar the pro-Uni ones weren't fazed by the prospect of defeat because time's on their side and the pro-Indies can keep the pressure up till the next referendum, and the next, and the next.

[Owlbread]

May as well say, if you're given a gun at one point, 'May as well go on a shooting spree now. After all, it might be your only shot at it', or a friend giving you a burger to hold whilst they go off for a piss and go 'Ah, I'll eat it. After all, I may not get to eat their burger later' or something in that vein. Just because you're given the opportunity it doesn't mean you should go for it.

The thing is in both situations there would be no real benefit to eating the burger or going on a shooting spree. I think independence is exactly what Scotland needs right now at this stage in our history; it makes sense to go for it now when we have the chance.

"If at first you don't secede, try, try again." Most of the Scots I talked to bar the pro-Uni ones weren't fazed by the prospect of defeat because time's on their side and the pro-Indies can keep the pressure up till the next referendum, and the next, and the next.

Time may be on our side, but I know there's people with us today campaigning who won't be there for the next one. Practically and emotionally I couldn't cope with losing and them not being there next time. I think now is the perfect time; we have the right teams, the right people. It has to happen now. We just can't wait through years of Blue Tory/Red Tory hell and cuts and austerity and war for another vote, that won't take place any time soon. As the line in that song I linked earlier went, "Son I voted Yes" - "I remember thinking, if we didn’t answer Yes/You could be 18 before they’d ask us again"

[Owlbread]

Thing is, she was saying that to convince the people wanting union. It doesn't really mean jack shit, because if you want union, you ignore her because she's saying your opinion is wrong because you might not be able to express it in the future. If you want independence, then you're on her side ANYWAYS.

It might help if you could actually link this article. I get the sense that seeing the argument in context would really help because there may be stuff we've missed.

[Descan]

That sounds like something more used to convince apathetic or un-decided voters than pro-Union voters :v

[Owlbread]

On an unrelated note, Conservatives, what the fucking hell are you doing?

The Conservatives are astonishingly incompetent, they really are. I know Labour would be the same but my god, why did they think smashing the Unions was a good idea right now?

You know, if shit like this keeps happening and Scotland becomes independent, can I live with you for a bit, Owl?

If we vote Yes I will put up as many details as I can for how to come to Scotland and live here temporarily or permanently. I'll do a lot of research. Based on the stuff I've already read, the demographic of Bay 12 with the most to gain from independence (apart from Scots like myself but I think there's about 3 of us at the max) are those with at least one Scottish parent. If you have a Scottish parent, you will qualify for citizenship automatically and you could apply for a Scottish passport. The reason why I would recommend taking that opportunity is that, as far as I know, as a Scottish citizen you would be entitled to free university education.

So yes, if you or your friends have at least one Scottish parent, keep an eye out on the 19th of September. In 2016 you might get the chance to come to Scotland and attend university here without plunging yourself into debt paying 9 grand a year in England in tuition fees. I should add that my suggestions go for absolutely anyone with a Scottish parent; regardless of whether they're based in North America, Europe, Africa, anywhere. I believe the definition of "Scottish" in that sense would be: if you were either born in Scotland, lived in Scotland for a certain length of time (I need to check this) or have a parent that has become a Scottish citizen.

EDIT:

Hold on... I've just read the white paper (SNP's overall plan for independence) again. Apparently if you have (or had?) a Scottish grandparent you can apply for citizenship. A grandparent is just as good as a parent. Also, if you have lived here for at least 10 years as an adult or child and have a "demonstrable connection to Scotland", you can apply for citizenship too. That's all on top of the normal routes of naturalisation and so on.

[Descan]

* Descan looks at his family coming to Nova Scotia four generations or more ago.

Well balls.

[Owlbread]

I'm half Scottish!

Hoorah! All I need to do is find a job in Scotland and some accommodation!

I'd like to point out the side I'm Scottish on is the side with the Scots Wha Hae fridge magnet.

Magnificent! You're a Scotsman! Or... you know... you will be in 2016. Hopefully. Then again you could be now if you wanted I mean anyone's got the right to be Scottish it's not like I care

* Descan looks at his family coming to Nova Scotia four generations or more ago.

Well balls.

I wonder if there will be a special immigration policy for Scottish diaspora and their descendents in Canada and the New World. I think it would be a nice tribute to the original exiles.

[Descan]

* Descan looks at his family coming to Nova Scotia four generations or more ago.

Well balls.

Err... Hmm...

Maybe you can cheat your way in by saying you came from Latin Scotland?

* Descan wears a tartan poncho.

Eeeeey amigoes! ¿Dónde está el haggis?

[Owlbread]

Are you sure you want that? They DID leave us, after all.

"Us"! Yes, that's the spirit. But it's the conditions/terms on which those exiles left that matters. The clearances and all that.

* Descan wears a tartan poncho.

Eeeeey amigoes! ¿Dónde está el haggis?

Joking aside I believe there's quite a sizable population of Scottish descent in places like Argentina. If we're going to have a special policy for Canada, hell why not go the whole hog?

EDIT: Hang on, I just remembered, according to my grandparents, the midges in Scotland come in vast swarms that are just EVIL.

Nope. Deal broken. Bye. Not letting your swarms of midges get my blood.

The midges are little ratbags but don't worry, they only come out at certain times of year and only in places like the Highlands where I live. I think the majority have died out now, I haven't been bitten in quite a while.

[Owlbread]

No! My brain is joining the proto-hivemind of Scotland!

There is no escape. You have been caught like a fish blissfully drifting into the rubbery tendrils of a left-leaning, communitarian siphonophore. That smells vaguely of strong alcohol and fried food. There is no need to resist; join us. All of us first.

[Sheb]

I'm just going to point out that EU rules don't let you discriminate between your citizens and citizens from other member states for university education. Either Scotland will be offering free university to any European or they'll do like most other countries and offer it to Scottish EU residents rather than citizens.

[martinuzz]

I'm just going to point out that EU rules don't let you discriminate between your citizens and citizens from other member states for university education. Either Scotland will be offering free university to any European or they'll do like most other countries and offer it to Scottish EU residents rather than citizens.

Hmm, I might need to go on study vacation to Scotland then for a few years. University is unaffordable here.
But seriously, Sheb is right. I doubt the politicians who thought that up really thought about it. Soon, Scotland's universities will be full with EU citizens, if you're lucky there will be a few places per year left for resident Scots.

[Sheb]

Well, not that many people are willing to move (although citizens from the rUK might). But as I said, just slap on a residency requirement (You must have lived in Scotland for 2 years to get free university) and the problem is solved.