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[Graknorke]

Apparently the UK economy was not as bad as we thought it was.
Or put another way, there has been a new way of measuring GDP developed which means that would be the case. Whether it's a more valid way of measuring is not exactly a straightforward question, or even a question with a definite answer at all.

[Sergarr]

>Change the way GDP is calculated.
>Do not bother recalculating it for previous years.
>Announce the end of economical depression.

I have no words.

[LordSlowpoke]

>Change the way GDP is calculated.
>Do not bother recalculating it for previous years.
>Announce the end of economical depression.

I have no words.

welcome to the west

please leave any expectation of reasonable governance at the door

[Criptfeind]

>Change the way GDP is calculated.
>Do not bother recalculating it for previous years.
>Announce the end of economical depression.

I have no words.

>Say someone is Announcing the end of economical depression
>Article says that it's still pretty bad but maybe not as bad as suggested and that talking about how the economy is doing is a self fulfilling prophecy.
>Clearly didn't read article.

I have no words.

[notquitethere]

Hey Owlbread, it's happening this month, what's the feeling on the streets about the prospects of independence? I know you're optimistic, but what are your compatriots generally feeling?

[Sergarr]

>Change the way GDP is calculated.
>Do not bother recalculating it for previous years.
>Announce the end of economical depression.

I have no words.

>Say someone is Announcing the end of economical depression
>Article says that it's still pretty bad but maybe not as bad as suggested and that talking about how the economy is doing is a self fulfilling prophecy.
>Clearly didn't read article.

I have no words.

Oh, so that's what it was talking about. Sorry, it was just a little bit too incomprehensibly written for my feeble mind to fully understand.

[Owlbread]

Hey Owlbread, it's happening this month, what's the feeling on the streets about the prospects of independence? I know you're optimistic, but what are your compatriots generally feeling?

My grassroots compatriots in the Yes movement are generally feeling more optimistic than I am and remain overwhelmingly positive. They (along with senior campaigners like the First Minister) still believe 100% that, despite the polls rising (as I said earlier YouGov has now risen to 47% Yes, 53% No - which is amazing considering they were our worst pollster) they do not fully gauge the swing in the Scottish electorate towards Yes. Alex Salmond described something like 200,000 people registering to vote in the referendum for the first time and in his own words "they aren't registering to vote No." If the YouGov poll is taken as gospel, with a turnout of 75% the Yes vote is behind by 150,000 votes. This is a number that can be overcome with both turnout and hard campaigning to swing the remaining undecideds our way. I have certainly noticed very large numbers of people swinging to Yes in the last while, including one of my best friends who was hitherto undecided. There is a genuine feeling of excitement in the air and more and more people on all sides and none are saying "Good christ, the Yes campaigners might actually do this".

Yet as always I am still very cautious of claiming victory or even saying it is likely we will win - there is a good chance, yes, but "likely?" I will believe it when I see it and I fear that the more ground we gain the more fearful the British establishment will become, god forbid we get a Yes majority poll before the vote. I fear we may feel the full brunt of MI5 and all sorts of dirty tricks at the last minute. At the moment Better Together, who know they are losing ground left, right and centre to Yes Scotland, who are a genuine grassroots movement, are trying to bring down the debate as much as possible through smear campaigns and alleging assault/an atmosphere of intimidation; like calling for huge police investigations if one of their street campaigners gets egged. All they can do is shit up the debate as much as possible so nobody wants to take part in it anymore.

The last time Britain came this close to losing one of its constituent countries in the Isles in the 1920s (within living memory) they sent in paramilitary death squads to murder people. God, I must sound like Ukrainian Ranger or Guardian G.I. talking about Nazis and I know that will never happen now, but the point is Britain will go to great lengths, even beyond the law if they can manage it without being noticed, to ensure that it retains its grip over territories it considers strategically crucial. My sincerest hope is that's all my own paranoia and nonsense, I really do.

[TD1]

Pfffff.

"They sent in paramilitary death squads to murder people."

Not quite. They were a volunteer force, mainly ex-WW1 fighters, made to assist the RIC in fending off the IRA.

It was not a matter of "Oh no, they will leave the U.K.!" *gasp!*

It was a matter of national defense. The police was stretched. They needed escorts. They needed numbers.

Unfortunately, that came at the cost of little police training.

[Sheb]

Well, they were certainly a paramilitary force. Wether or not they count as death squad would be a matter of opinion, but stuff like the Burning of Cork certainly would seem to fit the bill.

[Owlbread]

Pfffff.

"They sent in paramilitary death squads to murder people."

Not quite. They were a volunteer force, mainly ex-WW1 fighters, made to assist the RIC in fending off the IRA.

Yes, a volunteer force that would act as a paramilitary death squad that tortured and murdered Irish civilians in a series of reprisals, part of a terror campaign or "counter insurgency" to defeat the IRA.

It was not a matter of "Oh no, they will leave the U.K.!" *gasp!*

It was a matter of national defense. The police was stretched. They needed escorts. They needed numbers.

"National defence" i.e. the need to ensure that the UK's territorial integrity remained.

Unfortunately, that came at the cost of little police training.

This coupled with institutionalised hatred of Irish people and the enlistment of psychologically damaged WW1 veterans led to the intended "volunteer force who would assist the RIC in fending off the IRA" becoming paramilitary deathsquads and murdering countless innocent people. I know of one elderly, disabled Irishman at that time (name of Peter O'Carroll, described as infirm or an invalid) who was executed by an auxiliary, shot in the side of the head at his front door at home in Dublin, because he refused to surrender his two sons to the authorities for their IRA membership. Details of the murder were suppressed in the press (which was controlled by the British government and various authorities at the time) and the auxiliaries left a note on his body, falsely claiming he was a traitor to the IRA and had been executed by them for this reason.

Honest to god the auxiliaries were basically the British Gestapo.

[TD1]

You misunderstand. I'm not trying to defend their actions, which believe it or not I have heard about, I am saying you are false in saying it was to deliberately keep the country in the U.K.

It was to aid the police in stopping the IRA. That the IRA wants all parts of Ireland to be free from Britain is a moot point. It could equally have been a measure to stop a gang or something not associated with nationality at all, given similar conditions.

[Owlbread]

You misunderstand. I'm not trying to defend their actions, which believe it or not I have heard about, I am saying you are false in saying it was to deliberately keep the country in the U.K.

It was to aid the police in stopping the IRA. That the IRA wants all parts of Ireland to be free from Britain is a moot point. It could equally have been a measure to stop a gang or something not associated with nationality at all, given similar conditions.

The thing is, we wouldn't have needed to "stop the IRA" if we didn't want Ireland to remain a part of the UK. Just allow it to become independent.

[TD1]

Allow us to become independent? Aside from the fact that you're suggesting we give into terrorism, you also assume Britain wants us. We are quite the drain on resources.

You also assume that we're being forced to remain. We voted ourselves in, and those counties that didn't, even two Ulster ones, form the Republic of Ireland.

The above is assuming that by "Ireland" you meant "Northern Ireland" specifically.

[Graknorke]

You misunderstand. I'm not trying to defend their actions, which believe it or not I have heard about, I am saying you are false in saying it was to deliberately keep the country in the U.K.

It was to aid the police in stopping the IRA. That the IRA wants all parts of Ireland to be free from Britain is a moot point. It could equally have been a measure to stop a gang or something not associated with nationality at all, given similar conditions.

The thing is, we wouldn't have needed to "stop the IRA" if we didn't want Ireland to remain a part of the UK. Just allow it to become independent.

Yes, accommodating terrorists is definitely the way to go.

[Owlbread]

Yes, accommodating terrorists is definitely the way to go.

I suppose if you dismiss the founders of modern-day Ireland as terrorists there's not much point in arguing.

Allow us to become independent? Aside from the fact that you're suggesting we give into terrorism, you also assume Britain wants us. We are quite the drain on resources.

You also assume that we're being forced to remain. We voted ourselves in, and those counties that didn't, even two Ulster ones, form the Republic of Ireland.

The above is assuming that by "Ireland" you meant "Northern Ireland" specifically.

I wouldn't have given the counties the chance to vote to remain a part of the UK, however. I'd have fought to ensure they were autonomous within Ireland. Northern Ireland is and always will be in my head a part of the wider nation of Ireland. I don't endorse divide and rule, even though I endorse the breaking up of large nations. There is little difference in my mind between Northern Ireland and Novorossiya.