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[Ukrainian Ranger]

Whatever solution will be found it is only a way to delay the beginning of the Third World War. 

[da_nang]

A sensible solution would be UN troops and a fair and transparent referendum.

As that would prevent Putin from getting what he wants, it won't happen.

Will all Ukrainians be able to vote?

[XXSockXX]

Whatever solution will be found it is only a way to delay the beginning of the Third World War.

I still don't think so, MAD makes WW3 quite uninteresting for everyone potentially involved.
Cold War 2 is much more likely and unfortunately Ukraine is getting ripped apart between the fronts.

NATO officials seem to have reversed their previous estimations, they now think Ukraine is going to lose soon-ish. (link in German)

An Italian newspaper quotes Putin saying in a conversation with EU comission president Barroso: "If I want to, I can take Kiev in two weeks." (as a response to threats of economic sanctions) (links in German and Italian)

Looks like the EU is moving towards economic sanctions now, even if it will hurt, it will hurt Russia more in the long run.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

And people wonder why NHS-style systems are rejected by some.

[Sheb]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the NHS has to do with this.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

XXSockXX, You keep assuming some level of sanity in Russian political leadership I don't see that. The only thing that can change the course to a big, big war - revolt inside Russia. Will thousands of dead Russian soldiers and deteriorating quality of life provoke that? I don't think so. As likely, as Germans staring anti-Hitler revolt in 1944.

[Sheb]

Depend what you mean by big, big war I guess. But it's pretty clear that Putin will not back down on his own to preserve his "tough boy" image.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the NHS has to do with this.

They desired a treatment the NHS would not provide, so they went somewhere they could get that treatment, and then were arrested for that. Perhaps not a direct involvement, but the fact remains that they were in all practical terms arrested for refusing to do what the NHS authorized.

[Helgoland]

But it's pretty clear that Putin will not back down on his own to preserve his "tough boy" image.

Let's hope it'll break his (and the nationalists') grip on Russian politics and allow some more sensible people to rise to power. Those soldiers' mothers really are a ray of hope - we'll have to support Ukraine to keep it from losing the war until Putin's image has deteriorated beyond repair.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Putin's image isn't deteriorating, it's better than it has been in years. He's riding this mob frenzy and it'll sustain him as the sole ruler of Russia for some time to come.

[XXSockXX]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the NHS has to do with this.

They desired a treatment the NHS would not provide, so they went somewhere they could get that treatment, and then were arrested for that. Perhaps not a direct involvement, but the fact remains that they were in all practical terms arrested for refusing to do what the NHS authorized.

As I understood it, it's the parents causing the trouble, as the boy might die without the right treatment and machines to feed him and they just removed him from the hospital without consultation.
NHS not paying for expensive experimental treatment is sad, but not unusual, and it certainly wouldn't be easier to get that treatment without NHS.

XXSockXX, You keep assuming some level of sanity in Russian political leadership I don't see that. The only thing that can change the course to a big, big war - revolt inside Russia. Will thousands of dead Russian soldiers and deteriorating quality of life provoke that? I don't think so. As likely, as Germans staring anti-Hitler revolt in 1944.

Well, there is still hope that it might work out, even if without a revolt in Russia. More dead Russian soldiers could turn public opinion a bit. Economic sanctions and lower quality of life might make the population more angry at the West than at their government, but the sanctions will cost some influential people a lot of money. And if we assume that Putin has some imperial aspirations, he won't risk getting nuked, so no WW3.

Seems like NATO and EU (ever slow as hell) are in the process of changing their positions to a harder course, specifically because the situation brings up memories of pre-WW2 appeasement policies and their disastrous results. The German president even said something to that effect (history shows that "appeasing aggressors only increases their appetite") at a WW2 memorial in Poland, which is pretty symbolic.

Still no good perspective at all for Ukraine, which is a shame really.

[Sergarr]

The thing is, Russian soldiers dying was only able to stop one war : war in Afghanistan, only because the Soviet media was a complete failure at that point of time.

As long as Russian soldiers keep on fighting against an enemy of Russia, the losses mean nothing. Russian psychology 101. Ever heard of Red Army's suicidal charges in 1941?

[Sheb]

They desired a treatment the NHS would not provide, so they went somewhere they could get that treatment, and then were arrested for that. Perhaps not a direct involvement, but the fact remains that they were in all practical terms arrested for refusing to do what the NHS authorized.

As far as I can tell, the hospital flipped out when they left, probably because they weren't sure the kid would be treated right. I'm not sure what a private insurance system would have changed.

[MonkeyHead]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the NHS has to do with this.

They desired a treatment the NHS would not provide, so they went somewhere they could get that treatment, and then were arrested for that. Perhaps not a direct involvement, but the fact remains that they were in all practical terms arrested for refusing to do what the NHS authorized.

... and in doing so potentially endangered the life of their child, according to the opinions of those treating him who described taking out of medical care as placing him in "grave danger". This is what the legal case should be centred on - was there actually any reckless endangerment in moving him against the wishes of his doctors. Hampshire constabulary has actually arrested them on grounds of child neglect, rather than any other offence - I am at a loss as to what else could be considered. The CPS has stated that there is as of yet no evidence or grounds for any charges, and it was indeed the hospital who requested that the boy be made a ward of court (to try and get the parents to present the boy for treatment, though it is not clear if they were withholding him from any at this stage, though children are usually made wards of court in cases where parents are refusing treatment and in doing so are likely to cause the death of their child), rather than any wider NHS body.  Its hard to hold it against the NHS for not providing a prohibitively expensive treatment which it currently lacks to capacity to offer when they did offer the family access to a second opinion regarding treatment, but you can say that the issue was not well handled by the police, and the media were quick to point the finger at the parents Jehovah Witness faith rather than investigate fully. I find it odd that the parents wanted to go to Eastern Europe for the treatment rather than pay for it through a UK or maybe even US private provider (as some families have done, though raising such finds must be a nightmare) - I assume it was a cost motivation, based on how they seem to have headed to Spain to sell a property there before using those funds to pay for treatment in the Czech Republic. On occasion the NHS has actually paid for patients to travel abroad (including the USA, so hardly scrimping on costs there) to access proton beam treatment when it is deemed a suitable treatment. I would be interested as to why this was not considered a viable option for this case - the NHS spokespeople are being cagey on this issue, saying they only refer patients abroad where evidence supports that the treatment will be effective. One can only infer from this that they think it would not work in this case. If it turns out that according to oncologists proton beam treatment was not a suitable option, then the parents behaviour was misguided even if they did not endanger him, whilst at the same totally understandable on compassionate grounds - who wouldn't want to try and help their child by any means at their disposal?

[Helgoland]

Putin's image isn't deteriorating, it's better than it has been in years. He's riding this mob frenzy and it'll sustain him as the sole ruler of Russia for some time to come.

So was the image of Argentina's junta at the beginning of the Falklands War.
Too many dead Russians spell major trouble for Putin, what with 95% of Russians against direct involvment in Ukraine. Putin's fate depends on Ukraine's military performance and his own inertia.

Sergarr: The Afghanistan war is precisely what I'm referring to: A war in a foreign country, with no clear goal, and with no good reason. Even the best media control won't help, because Russia is in fact connected to the internet. Either that, or I bow to your telepathic forum powers.