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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1779506 times)

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9480 on: August 23, 2014, 10:00:47 am »

Why are you so sure about the "surrender" thing?

Quote
"There must be two sides to be successful. You cannot achieve peace on your own. I hope the talks with Russia will lead to success"
Successful talks with Russia = Surrendering
Don't tell me you expect to outlast Russia on the field of battle?
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smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9481 on: August 23, 2014, 10:07:34 am »

Why are you so sure about the "surrender" thing?

Quote
"There must be two sides to be successful. You cannot achieve peace on your own. I hope the talks with Russia will lead to success"
Successful talks with Russia = Surrendering
Don't tell me you expect to outlast Russia on the field of battle?

Or just wait for winter to take it's toll, that's one strategy Russia has used.
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MarcAFK

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9482 on: August 23, 2014, 10:10:01 am »

Or just wait for winter to take it's toll, that's one strategy Russia has used.
Sorry, doesn't work anymore, Global warming.
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They're nearly as bad as badgers. Build a couple of anti-buzzard SAM sites marksdwarf towers and your fortress will look like Baghdad in 2003 from all the aerial bolt spam. You waste a lot of ammo and everything is covered in unslightly exploded buzzard bits and broken bolts.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9483 on: August 23, 2014, 10:13:54 am »

Or just wait for winter to take it's toll, that's one strategy Russia has used.
Sorry, doesn't work anymore, Global warming.
Global warming does not prevent super cold periods of time and in fact, make them even more extreme.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9484 on: August 23, 2014, 10:14:00 am »

Or just wait for winter to take it's toll, that's one strategy Russia has used.
Sorry, doesn't work anymore, Global warming.
Warming just means that rather than freezing to death, you will be eaten alive by insects in the Siberian Swamps.

Siberia is not a nice place.
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smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9485 on: August 23, 2014, 10:15:43 am »

Or just wait for winter to take it's toll, that's one strategy Russia has used.
Sorry, doesn't work anymore, Global warming.

And technology. We (as in humans, not just the west) could fight in Antarctica just fine, though the cold would still affect morale somewhat and equipment would have to be adapted to the harsh environment.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9486 on: August 23, 2014, 10:19:38 am »

Why are you so sure about the "surrender" thing?

Quote
"There must be two sides to be successful. You cannot achieve peace on your own. I hope the talks with Russia will lead to success"
Successful talks with Russia = Surrendering
Don't tell me you expect to outlast Russia on the field of battle?
That would be possible if EU took actual steps to collapse Russian economy in response for Russian actions

No such luck. We are living in a new world, were Russia is allowed to do anything it wants.
It looks like resisting Ukraine is a problem for EU because it brings attention to that fact

Anyway Russia will collapse as a state in the next years, question is - how many millions of lives will it take in its agony
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9487 on: August 23, 2014, 10:27:43 am »

Anyway Russia will collapse as a state in the next years
And will be reborn in the next one. Better and stronger, like Russian Empire to USSR transition.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9488 on: August 23, 2014, 10:30:13 am »

If USSR is a better version of Russian Empire I don't want to think what is a better version of Russian Federation
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9489 on: August 23, 2014, 11:19:01 am »

The Empire was a very shitty place, though. The USSR may certainly have been an improvement.

Anyway Russia will collapse as a state in the next years
And will be reborn in the next one. Better and stronger, like Russian Empire to USSR transition.
Let's hope so. It worked out for Germany, after all.
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9490 on: August 23, 2014, 12:34:43 pm »

While the USSR did a good job diverting resources towards industry and electricity, the empire had a lot less famine.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

GreatJustice

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9491 on: August 23, 2014, 12:57:21 pm »

The thing about the Empire, though, is that it constantly alternated between fairly reasonable, modernizing emperors (that had a nasty tendency to get assassinated) and autocratic, unreasonable emperors. The USSR, meanwhile, simply had two main periods: pre-Khrushchev, and post-Stalin. The Pre-Khrushchev USSR was a straight up bad place to be for pretty much everyone involved. If you were a high level CPSU member, you were either constantly jockeying for a position in the Politburo (Lenin era) or you were dead (Stalin era, barring Stalin himself). If you were a regular person, you would be starving if Ukrainian, possibly starving if not, abducted and raped by the organs if modestly attractive and unlucky, imprisoned and executed if you accidentally bothered a vengeful Party member (who in turn would be terrified of being accused of "plotting against Stalin" and getting executed himself), and very, very screwed if you lived anywhere between Brest and Moscow. You were particularly screwed if you lived in an area that changed hands multiple times eg. Kharkov, since the Nazis would kill about half the people for being Communist, the Soviets would kill half the survivors for collaborating, and anyone who survived that would be under suspicion by both sides. If you were a mid level party member you would probably get purged by Yagoda/Yezhov/Beria/Abakumov, if you were a farmer in the ass end of nowhere you would be accused of being a Kulak and executed, and if you were Stalin you would live in constant paranoia of everyone around you plotting your death (and, indeed, he probably was assassinated on Beria's order in '53). All in all, a pretty terrible place to live, generally worse than the Empire had ever been.

The Post-Stalin USSR, meanwhile, wasn't so bad, for what that's worth. You technically didn't have freedom of speech, but you could generally say what you pleased and probably come out fine, you probably had enough food to live off of, but not quite enough to live well, and you could generally live safe in the knowledge that you wouldn't be dragged out of your job for being a wrecker. Your living standards would generally be several steps below that of the Americans or Western Europeans, but above those of people pretty much everywhere else. It was a decidedly banal existence for most, though. Wake up in the morning, read your crappy propaganda newspaper, leave your crappy apartment to take your crappy Lada to your crappy factory job, then return to stand in a crappy bread line for a while (unless you have elderly relatives willing to do so on your behalf) before headed to the neighbourhood smuggler for some crappy luxury goods. Unless you lived in Moscow and were either (A) a very high level CPSU member, in which case it was summertime and the living was easy or (B) you had decent connections to smugglers, in which case you basically lived the life of an upper-middle class American. Or if you lived in a non-USSR Warsaw Pact country, in which case you probably still lived under Stalin-emulating rulers. So, better than the Empire, but probably not better than what a hypothetical White-victory Russia would have ended up.
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The person supporting regenerating health, when asked why you can see when shot in the eye justified it as 'you put on an eyepatch'. When asked what happens when you are then shot in the other eye, he said that you put an eyepatch on that eye. When asked how you'd be able to see, he said that your first eye would have healed by then.

Professional Bridge Toll Collector?

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9492 on: August 23, 2014, 01:26:00 pm »

Working class didn't use cars to get to work. They used public transit system to get to work. You know, like buses, trams, and the like.

Are you an American? Because it's a really American thing to ignore the existence of public transit systems.
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Guardian G.I.

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9493 on: August 23, 2014, 01:38:22 pm »

While the USSR did a good job diverting resources towards industry and electricity, the empire had a lot less famine.
Actually, no.
The Russian Empire had two very big famines - in 1601-03 (harvest failure caused by a volcanic winter) and in 1891-92 (harvest failure caused by drought). However, various parts of the empire frequently experienced harvest failures and food shortages. For example, the territories of modern Belarus had harvest failures leading to famines in 1833, 1845-1846, 1851 and in 1855.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 01:43:37 pm by Guardian G.I. »
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this means that a donation of 30 dollars to a developer that did not deliver would equal 4.769*10^-14 hitlers stolen from you
that's like half a femtohitler
and that is terrible
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #9494 on: August 23, 2014, 01:45:11 pm »

And the Russian Empire continued to export grain in spite of these famines, basically conducting (semi-unknowingly) mass slaughter of it's own populace.

But it was considered okay at a time because "they were just serfs!".

Uuuuuurgh.
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