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[MarcAFK]

I'm sorry to hear that Ukrainian Ranger.
What is your opinion of Obama's plans to spend a measly few million dollars next year on helping to train Ukrainian National and border guard Units "?
U.S. Plans To Train, Arm Ukraine National Guard In 2015

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Help is a help.

I am far, far from thinking that any country has any obligation to provide any military aid to Ukraine so no complains about military aid being too modest.

[Helgoland]

Yeah, my condolences. Do you know where he was killed?

[Sergarr]

meanwhile http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-rebel-city-lugansk-verge-humanitarian-catastrophe-134114295.html

putin's regime or not but these guys are pretty fucked right now

and UR, don't think that Russian aggression you perceive will end with Putin... You've created a cult of Putin-ism, you know? Nobody talk so much about Putin like Ukrainians...

[Graknorke]

I'm sorry to hear that Ukrainian Ranger.
What is your opinion of Obama's plans to spend a measly few million dollars next year on helping to train Ukrainian National and border guard Units "?
U.S. Plans To Train, Arm Ukraine National Guard In 2015

Isn't this the exact same thing that they did in Libya and it ended up not working?

[Owlbread]

and UR, don't think that Russian aggression you perceive will end with Putin... You've created a cult of Putin-ism, you know? Nobody talk so much about Putin like Ukrainians...

Russian aggression wouldn't end with Putin, it would end with the collapse of the ruling establishment in Russia, something that would hopefully follow the end of Putin.

[MarcAFK]

I doubt the money would make a difference, the Militia seem to be basically doing their own thing which appears to be carelessly shelling russian speaking civilian areas to drive the population from the country. The whole thing is about the same as what Israel is doing in gaza at the moment.

[Helgoland]

Source, please? Otherwise that's just low-quality propaganda.

[Darvi]

Nobody talk so much about Putin like Ukrainians...

Clearly you've never seen a Frenchman with a pottymouth.

[Sergarr]

Nobody talk so much about Putin like Ukrainians...

Clearly you've never seen a Frenchman with a pottymouth.

I have never been in France D:

[MarcAFK]

Well, obviously RT first put me onto stories about the militia 'carelessly' shelling civilians, then it was  globalresearch.ca, both those sources are obviously full of russian bias, but you can hardly ignore images of bodies being chucked off a Ukrainian apc, or people huddled in their basements because they have no idea why they're being bombed, but they're scared they're going to die. That and the mass evacuations to crimea.
Here's a link from VICE which I would find to be less biased.
http://www.vice.com/en_au/vice-news/russian-roulette-the-invasion-of-ukraine-august-2-954
Nothing too shocking on that video, just people being displaced and talking about their cities being shelled.
This is the video that had more graphic images.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/war-crimes-and-atrocities-committed-by-ukraines-armed-forces-and-national-guard/5390016
Take anything from that site with a grain of salt, don't watch if you are offended by images from warzones, theres a pair of protesters shot randomly by snipers at the beginning, then lots of people lieing dead in cars, then just people dead in the street from shrapnel I would assume from shelling.

[Helgoland]

Sooo... no backup to your claim of _indiscriminate_ shelling of civilian areas. If you can't find a source, I'd suggest editing your previous post.

(I'd also like to see evidence of Israel _indiscriminately_ shelling civilian areas, as you claimed, but that's a whole different can of worms.)

[MarcAFK]

I can edit the word indiscriminately to carelessly if you prefer. It means the same thing in the context. It would make more sense to ask for some evidence to back up the claim that it's to drive russians from the area' but that's just a given in any conflict where unsupervised hyper nationalists occupy by force a neighboring area which is settled by civilians of an ethnicity which has oppressed them in the past.

[Helgoland]

'Shelling civilians' is usually taken as 'intentionally shelling civilians' as opposed to 'targeting someone else but also hitting civilians' - just removing the word 'indiscriminate' doesn't help at all, as you haven't provided a source for that, either.

And as there are lots of Russian insurgents in the area (and as Ukraine is generally recognized as a civilized nation), the burden of proof lies with those who claim crimes against civilians. If this was a court case, it'd be called in dubio pro reo.

Two more things I'd like to see sources for: 1) The Ukrainian troops consisting mainly of 'unsupervised hyper nationalists', 2) Russian being the main ethnicity in Eastern Ukraine.

[MarcAFK]

I would assume they're fleeing to Russia and Crimea because they're Russian, but I can't identify what language the people being shelled speak as I can't tell the difference between Ukrainian and Russian