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[XXSockXX]

Useless fun factoids about national anthems: do these German and Austrian imperial anthems sound familiar to anyone? What a difference lyrics can make...

[Dutchling]

Spoiler: heh (click to show/hide)

edit: oops wrong megathread Isreal is part of Eurovision Song Contest so it's okay.

[Descan]

The problem with that is the First Nations... Are actually called, you know, natives. It's what people here think of when they hear the term "native," not "person living in his birthplace."

Basically you can't call immigrant-descended Canadians "native" because there are already natives here. If they were gone, it'd... still be a dick move, but it's like the difference between moving into a house of a dude who died and saying "I always lived here," versus moving into a guys house and pushing him into the basement and saying "I always lived here."

[TD1]

Orrrrrrr

You are all native. No need to differentiate. A descendant of an immigrant has lived in the country the same amount of time as the descendant of a "Native."

[Willfor]

@ Descan.

But we're calling them First Nations for exactly that reason.

I'm native Canadian, I have family going back in Canada since the American Revolution, and my roots are in the founding of this nation. I believe immigration is essential to the Canadian condition, but I cannot consider myself an immigrant because none of my family moved here in more than a hundred years. If "native" is not something I can apply to myself, I'm not entirely certain what I can call myself. The last time I tried to call myself European because of my ancestors, I was laughed at by Europeans.

As coined by a certain beer company, I am ... Canadian.

[Descan]

Then call yourself Canadian...? You don't need to call yourself a 'native' when it means a lot more, as I said, here than just "person living in his birthplace," when calling yourself a Canadian works just as well...

It never comes up for me, I just go with Canadian and nobody bats an eye, but if I *HAD* to come up with a term, I'd probably say "colonial" before "native." Even though my ancestors were likely from the Highland clearances, it's still more apt.

[Darvi]

Fucking twentieth-generation immigrants stealing our jerbs.

[TD1]

If you were born in Canada, I don't care about your bloodline or pedigree. You're a blinking native.

[Frumple]

Think the states do it as something like at-minimum 1/16th native american to count? So at least one full blooded great-grandparent, something like that. There's a way of checking, in any case. Technically qualify for the various benefits in place for someone of native american descent, m'self. Some variation of Creek, iirc.

Personally though, yeah, I differentiate between native in the sense of pedigree and natural born citizen, if only to show a little respect for just how badly europeans and their descendants fucked over the pre-colonial natives. X generation American is a bit different from a Native American, basically. Possibly a bit like the germans and their WWII stuff, except we actually pretty much did pull off genocide and kept the land we murderdozed of the original inhabitants. Probably take another few hundred years before that mess really wears off the social consciousness.

[BlackFlyme]

Native status is an actual legal thing in Canada. Oddly enough the government sites I've looked at refer to them as 'indians', even though I was taught that calling them that was a slur back when I was in grade school.

I'm not sure what exactly being a native entitles you to in the present, but I'd be willing to bet that it's probably not enough to make up for the near-genocide in the past.

[Willfor]

Native status is an actual legal thing in Canada. Oddly enough the government sites I've looked at refer to them as 'indians', even though I was taught that calling them that was a slur back when I was in grade school.

I'm not sure what exactly being a native entitles you to in the present, but I'd be willing to bet that it's probably not enough to make up for the near-genocide in the past.

Not nearly enough at all. There's quite a lot of injustice going on about it at the moment, and a vocal section of the populous that believes they deserve it for "being lazy".

It's a bit of a derail I imagine, the reason we're talking about it here.

[Dutchling]

So exactly how much of a benefit should having genocided ancestors give you?

[Willfor]

Well, given that they exist as political entities with which we hold treaties with at the moment, I would assume the minimum standard of human decency would be to honor the treaties we signed with them instead of giving large corporations an equal say on what we're doing with their land at the moment. That would be a pretty good start, I think.

[BlackFlyme]

So exactly how much of a benefit should having genocided ancestors give you?

There are still many natives alive who lived through it. It was still going on in the 1900's in a less direct way through 'residential schools'.

[Descan]

Yeah. Residential schools stick in my craw, because it's basically the same thing the English did to the Gaelic Scots. Stick them in an Anglo school and whip them to being "civilized" (read: English/British) :/ Disappointing how they dealt out what their ancestors themselves had done to them. (since so many Canadians are Scottish and all)

And what Frumple said. It's respect. Saying "My family lived here for generations, I'm as native as they come!" may be technically correct (The best KIND of correct, I hear!) but it's also technically correct in the same was as the "#NotAllMen" thing was. Yes, it's technically correct, but it's missing the bloody point by a mile.