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[Sergarr]

Russia is playing a dangerous game with conspiracy theories. Very dangerous.

They keep forgetting the rebels tweeted about downing a 'transport' plane.

They don't keep forgetting to tell that the aircraft wasn't supposed to be there (its flight path lies ~15 km to the south). Also the fact that if Kiev knew about the Buks in rebel hands they should have canceled all flights there...these things weren't designed to ignore civilian aircraft 

_{I really need to find something else to play than DF.}

[Ukrainian Ranger]

I have though about possibility that Ukraine could provoke that. Put MH17 in the right place and give disinformation to Russians saying that military transport will fly here.....

But doubt that our side would even consider acting like that

[Descan]

When you start doubting a government will do something because "But they'd never do that!" you need to take a good long look at yourself and who you're supporting.

Plenty of Americans said the same thing about NSA and wire-tapping because FREEDOM, and look what happened.

Not saying that the UKR gov. did a false-flag, I'm pretty convinced the rebels are to blame and they thought it was a military target, but if your only reason to think something did or did not happen is because "That's not like them!" then you really don't have a reason at all.

[XXSockXX]

They don't keep forgetting to tell that the aircraft wasn't supposed to be there (its flight path lies ~15 km to the south). Also the fact that if Kiev knew about the Buks in rebel hands they should have canceled all flights there...these things weren't designed to ignore civilian aircraft 

Actually, from what I have read, they can identify civilian aircrafts, because these give off different signals from military machines. You gotta be trained to know how to read those signals though.
Planes flying over crisis areas is on the International Civil Aviation Organization, if the air space is not officially closed. A Malaysian Airlines flight took an alternative route and avoided Ukraine by flying over...Syria.   

[Sheb]

Civilians planes have transponders, sure, but apart from that, what's the difference in signature between a civilian jet and a jet bomber for example?

Also, I was at my girlfriend's place (well, we're not like officially boy- and girlfriend, but that's not what the thread is about), where they don't have wifi, so I just loaded all the thread pages at work and read them on the bus. Fuck guys, I was really thinking I'd connect today only to find it closed by Toady. I'm glad things cooled down, and kudos to you all for cooling it down, but please keep it cool. Please, please, please, don't disturb Toady.

[Sergarr]

They don't keep forgetting to tell that the aircraft wasn't supposed to be there (its flight path lies ~15 km to the south). Also the fact that if Kiev knew about the Buks in rebel hands they should have canceled all flights there...these things weren't designed to ignore civilian aircraft 

Actually, from what I have read, they can identify civilian aircrafts, because these give off different signals from military machines. You gotta be trained to know how to read those signals though.
Planes flying over crisis areas is on the International Civil Aviation Organization, if the air space is not officially closed. A Malaysian Airlines flight took an alternative route and avoided Ukraine by flying over...Syria.   

[url] tag is broken.

[palsch]

Independent link on it.

[XXSockXX]

tag is broken.

Oops, fixed it.
Was just this anyway: https://twitter.com/flightradar24/statuses/491125734929629184

Civilians planes have transponders, sure, but apart from that, what's the difference in signature between a civilian jet and a jet bomber for example?

I read that somewhere, I'll try to look it up.

Civilians planes have transponders, sure, but apart from that, what's the difference in signature between a civilian jet and a jet bomber for example?

I read that somewhere, I'll try to look it up.

EDIT:
Found it.
In short, Buk has a radar that automatically identifies civil aircraft (apparently their transponder signals are different from military aircraft). For that to work though, you need to set up the radar correctly, which is tricky and requires well trained personnel.

[Sergarr]

Also, 32 km (Buk's missile maximum range) * 2 (aircraft flying right over the Buk) / (905 km/h) (cruise speed of Boeing 777) = ~250 seconds (or ~4 minutes) for the operator to make a decision. This is pretty much the theoretical maximum and it will be lower in practice.

I think it was also trying to return to it's previous course right before the catastrophe so the operator might have seen that as the attempt to run away from it's firing zone... It's tragic, what can I say.

[boki]

It really is tragic, the wors thing is that similar things happened  in past. So this is not the first time something like this happens

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Yes, civilian aircraft being shot down by military forces isn't something new. The last one was shot down by Ukraine during exercises. In 2001 IIRC

[boki]

I actually did not know about that incident. I was more talking about things that happen in war, like when USA shoot down iran civilian air plane and similar.

[Guardian G.I.]

I actually did not know about that incident. I was more talking about things that happen in war, like when USA shoot down iran civilian air plane and similar.

The incident in question.

[XXSockXX]

This German newspaper has verified (via interviews with separatists and eyewitnesses) an earlier report by an Italian newspaper about separatists being sent to the site immediately after the crash, to arrest the pilots (which they thought were military who might have parachuted out).

[Beznogim]

Meanwhile, Ukraine parliament has outlawed Ukrainian Communist party.
"They came first for Communists, and I didn't speak up, because I wasn't a Communist...".

Also, apparently this is how democracy works. Beating and removing people for voicing different opinion is okay, it seems.