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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1771426 times)

Guardian G.I.

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7275 on: July 03, 2014, 06:19:11 pm »

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smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7276 on: July 03, 2014, 06:37:38 pm »

Well, if the Ukrainians are finally doing something about it, then I'd say well done. it's about time those rebels were put down with force. Attacking a nation's army with firepower and killing a nation's citizens should not go unpunished.

Collateral damage unfortunately, exists. Even the US screws up.

Hopefully those apartments reportedly that got flattened were evacuated.

What does the US have anything to do with this?

Nothing, just that even the US, with our precision guided missiles, screws up and has civillian casualties (aka collateral damage), I expect the same to be true for the Ukranian army. Assuming that there are even civillians where they are targeting.

Edit: Is ITAR-TASS considered a kremlin mouthpiece or is it neutral (as neutral gets in this whole thing)? Because they are reporting the attack in the Ligansk area.

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/738959
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 07:04:46 pm by smjjames »
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7277 on: July 03, 2014, 07:16:22 pm »

The commander of pro-Russian forces in Slavyansk and formally the Minister of Defence of the Donetsk People's Republic Igor Strelkov has stated that his troops won't hold out much longer against the superior Ukrainian force - he's begging the Russian government to launch a military intervention or otherwise they will have to deal with hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing the Eastern Ukraine to Russia. However, Putin is too busy trying to be a master of diplomacy - he's quietly negotiating the prolongation of ceasefire agreements with the EU and he's constantly calling for a peaceful resolution of the conflict. What an imperialist.

Putin is an Imperialist, not an idiot. He's got what he wanted - Ukraine has been destabilised to the Nth degree and Crimea has been annexed. The West has been reminded that he is King in that area and his other puppet states e.g. Kazakhstan and Belarus have been reminded that if they start playing with that "revolution" nonsense and try to go against his word they could potentially have their countries split and their economies ruined. Guys like Strelkov are completely expendable and Putin doesn't really need them anymore.

Of course the best way to get at Putin on this one is for Ukraine to defeat the rebellion, devolve power to all of its many regions equally, continue to recognise Crimea as a part of Ukraine and then join the EU and NATO. If the quality of life in Ukraine can improve, there is a possibility that Ukraine may become a smaller, "better version of Russia" where Russians can live, work, start successful businesses and experience the joys of free movement as their Russo-Latvian friends currently do. Considering how many Russians currently live in the UK and around somewhere like London, if moving to the EU was as easy as moving to Donetsk then I'm sure Russians would be pouring out of the Federation. The elderly Stalinists in Crimea can wave their Russian naval flags all they want, they'll still have empty supermarkets and international restrictions on their travel while farmers just over the border can enjoy subsidies. This is what Putin actually fears the most.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 07:37:15 pm by Owlbread »
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smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7278 on: July 03, 2014, 07:33:36 pm »

That's kind of assuming that the Ukranians and the Russo-Ukranians will be able to get along. I'm sure many want to get along, but... there has been a pretty deep split lately.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7279 on: July 03, 2014, 07:37:54 pm »

That's kind of assuming that the Ukranians and the Russo-Ukranians will be able to get along. I'm sure many want to get along, but... there has been a pretty deep split lately.

Of course that'll always be there. Ukraine just needs to endure unrest while they accomplish great things.
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TD1

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7280 on: July 03, 2014, 07:40:47 pm »

Such as world domination.

That's right. Ukraine's out to get us.
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7281 on: July 03, 2014, 07:42:11 pm »

Such as world domination.

That's right. Ukraine's out to get us.

Joking aside if Ukraine got their shit together I'm fairly certain they could be a very major player in the world, like an Eastern France.
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smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7282 on: July 03, 2014, 07:44:42 pm »

Such as world domination.

That's right. Ukraine's out to get us.

Joking aside if Ukraine got their shit together I'm fairly certain they could be a very major player in the world, like an Eastern France.

I wonder how much Russia would tolerate such a powerful former soviet sattelite?
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7283 on: July 03, 2014, 07:49:04 pm »

I wonder how much Russia would tolerate such a powerful former soviet sattelite?

They wouldn't, that's why they've nearly split Ukraine in half.
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Comrade P.

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7284 on: July 04, 2014, 03:26:46 am »

Homefront 2: Instead of North Korea, Ukraine!

Homefront 3 then?
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vagel7

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7285 on: July 04, 2014, 04:57:44 am »

http://english.pravda.ru/

Oh the propaganda, so ridiculous.
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That last gobbo would stand there, missing an arm, punctured in a kidney, liver, and spleen, fading in and out of consciousness at the far end of where the drawbridge would go, and his last sight would be the drawbridge dropping down and smashing him like a bug.

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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7286 on: July 04, 2014, 08:25:38 am »

Quote
He's got what he wanted - Ukraine has been destabilised to the Nth degree and Crimea has been annexed.
I doubt that he got what he wanted... It's like Stalin in Winter War. Formally he won and got a chunk of territory... But he wanted more.

Putin wanted that New Russia thing and didn't get it. Crimea is a poor consolation prize. Minor destabilization at Donbass isn't a huge achievement, either. I consider it minor comparing to what it could be if Russian propaganda managed to make 100 000 locals+ take arms against Ukrainian state.

Quote
Guys like Strelkov are completely expendable and Putin doesn't really need them anymore.
There are theory that Putin intentionally utilizes guys like Strelkov because they may create Russian Right Sector and lead Russian Maidan

Win-win. Destabilize situation in Ukraine and get rid of potential enemies.

Quote
Kazakhstan and Belarus have been reminded that if they start playing with that "revolution" nonsense and try to go against his word they could potentially have their countries split and their economies ruined
I'd not call this countries puppets. Under heavy influence yep. Puppets... not yet
Problem is that when dictators die, country has a high chance to go down  in chaos

Quote
If the quality of life in Ukraine can improve, there is a possibility that Ukraine may become a smaller, "better version of Russia" where Russians can live, work, start successful businesses and experience the joys of free movement as their Russo-Latvian friends currently do.
Ukraine is attractive for Russian immigrants even now. So far it is true only for a small subset for people who are ready to lose in income but live in a more free country.
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Loud Whispers

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7287 on: July 04, 2014, 09:21:55 am »

The arguments for carriers mirror my argument for nukes almost word for word. BBC confirmed for lurking Europol thread.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
* Loud Whispers nervously checks the curtains and ceiling for camouflaged reporters.
* Loud Whispers checks the publishing date
Oh. It was I copying them all along...


*EDIT
The context is that the Queen Elizabeth carriers are off to their naming ceremonies.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 09:23:36 am by Loud Whispers »
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Sinistar

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7288 on: July 04, 2014, 09:41:59 am »

Ukraine's new defence minister promises Crimea victory

This is yesterday's news, still posting it because I just want to say - I really hope this guy knows what hes doing. I hope he's not dumb enough to actually send Ukrainian tanks rolling down the Crimean roads. Fighting separatist in Donetsk and Luhansk is one thing, but there will be Russian forces in Crimea. I hope he means "After we get Crimea back through some sort of diplomatic means, then yeah, we will totally hold a victory parade in Sevastopol." Probably just saber rattling, but still...

Interesting article about alleged group recruiting Russian volunteers to fight in Ukraine.

Also something about ex-Crimean Tatars.

As always, take it with a bit of salt.

In other news: Germany arrests suspected US spy
Hey, it's like cold war all over again. Neat. Maybe next Bond movie will finally feature again a bit more megalomaniac, insane main villains with heavy Russian accent.

On aircraft carriers - I will say, UK's new addition to it's fleet look pretty damn sexy.
Good luck waiting on the first delivery of over-priced, overdeveloped mess that is F-35 though.
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Descan

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #7289 on: July 04, 2014, 09:53:41 am »

"And 95% of the nation's imports arrive by sea,"

... How can 5% of an island nations imports not arrive by sea? Plane? ... That's a LOT of air imports. I thought that wasn't economical. >_>
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