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[Mech#4]

Heh, the "Walkie Talkie". It can sit next to the "Cucumber". I love the names people come up for these buildings.

Brutalism style, to my lack of knowledge on the subject, looks like it arose from lack of steel building materials.

[scrdest]

Brutalism style, to my lack of knowledge on the subject, looks like it arose from lack of steel building materials.

No - you can have concrete-heavy buildings that are not Brutalist. Admittably, the cheapness of the buildings played a part in the popularity of the style in certain areas, things like Soviet influences or the desire to be 'edgy' compared to the earlier styles also had.

[notquitethere]

I know I'm late to the convo, but I really liked the look of Owlbread's Cumbernauld. Brutalism gets a bad rap and concrete looks awful when it's aged and grimy, but I can appreciate the striking formalism of many of the buildings (like that shopping centre!). I'd much rather buildings made cheaply from local materials to styles that are attractive to the people that have to use the buildings. But now we have these brutalist buildings, I'd rather they be painted and maintained rather than demolished. No need to waste resources destroying functional buildings that have fallen out of fashion.

[Mech#4]

I do think they look neat in a rigid and structured manner, though I wouldn't want to live in one. If the buildings were built on the cheap, like I believe some of the apartments shown previously were, then pulling it down and starting over may be cheaper and better in the long than trying to patch all the holes.

[Guardian G.I.]

Meanwhile in Ukraine, things are looking bad for the pro-Russian forces: heavy fighting has been going on in Nikolaevka near Slavyansk. The town has been heavily hit by Ukrainian artillery - reportedly several apartment buildings have been flattened by the Ukrainian shelling, the local power station was set ablaze during the fight. The pro-Russian militias are still holding out in Nikolaevka, but they are outnumbered and have nothing to counter Ukrainian armour and heavy artillery.

The commander of pro-Russian forces in Slavyansk and formally the Minister of Defence of the Donetsk People's Republic Igor Strelkov has stated that his troops won't hold out much longer against the superior Ukrainian force - he's begging the Russian government to launch a military intervention or otherwise they will have to deal with hundreds of thousands of refugees fleeing the Eastern Ukraine to Russia. However, Putin is too busy trying to be a master of diplomacy - he's quietly negotiating the prolongation of ceasefire agreements with the EU and he's constantly calling for a peaceful resolution of the conflict. What an imperialist.

[smjjames]

Hm, they are apparently doing or considering a second cease fire right after the first one utterly failed? Or maybe there are some talks going on which is being called a second cease fire when it hasn't actually happened yet.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/02/talks-as-ukraine-fighting-worsens/12033425/

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-russia-offensive-20140702-story.html

Is the resistance as fractured between different groups as I think it is? I'm going to guess that the second cease fire will fail as well since there isn't any single rebel group that has dominance AFAIK. So, not all of the rebel groups will agree to the cease fire.

Also, Putin tied his own hands as far as military intervention since he just had the Duma revoke the permission (or whatever it was) to invade Ukraine. Doesn't stop him from sending supplies or something.

[Guardian G.I.]

Hm, they are apparently doing or considering a second cease fire right after the first one utterly failed? Or maybe there are some talks going on which is being called a second cease fire when it hasn't actually happened yet.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/02/talks-as-ukraine-fighting-worsens/12033425/

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-russia-offensive-20140702-story.html

Is the resistance as fractured between different groups as I think it is? I'm going to guess that the second cease fire will fail as well since there isn't any single rebel group that has dominance AFAIK. So, not all of the rebel groups will agree to the cease fire.

It's likely there won't be any rebel groups to negotiate with when the second cease fire is agreed upon.

Also:

Hauptinhalt
press release
Joint Declaration by the Foreign Ministers of Ukraine, Russia, France and Germany

date of issue
    02.07.2014

The Foreign Ministers of Germany, France, Russia and Ukraine strongly reconfirm their commitment to sustainable peace and stability in Ukraine. In this context they stress the necessity of a sustainable ceasefire, to be agreed upon swiftly and to be observed by all concerned, thus putting an end to violence in Eastern Ukraine.

Ministers urge that the Contact Group should resume no later than July 5th with the goal of reaching an unconditional and mutually agreed sustainable cease-fire. This cease-fire should be monitored by the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission in Ukraine in conformity with its mandate. In that respect, Ministers agree to take all necessary measures and use their influence on the concerned parties with a view to achieving this goal. Ministers stress the importance of a swift release of all hostages.

Ministers welcome Russia’s readiness to grant Ukrainian border guards access to Russian territory in order to participate in the control of border crossings at the checkpoints Gukovo and Donetsk while the mutually agreed cease-fire is in place. This shall be done in close collaboration between Russian and Ukrainian border authorities and pending the return of the Ukrainian checkpoints Izvarino and Krasnopartizansk to Ukrainian government control.

Ministers invite the OSCE to take all necessary steps to deploy OSCE-observers in response to the Russian invitation at the Russian checkpoints Gukovo and Donetsk while the mutually agreed cease-fire is in place. All sides must contribute to a secure environment.

Ministers stress that this would contribute to an effective control of the Russian-Ukrainian border and called for regular and expeditious exchange of relevant information between Russia, Ukraine and the OSCE.

Ministers emphasize the need to ensure safety and security of journalists working in the area of violence.

[smjjames]

Hm, they are apparently doing or considering a second cease fire right after the first one utterly failed? Or maybe there are some talks going on which is being called a second cease fire when it hasn't actually happened yet.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/02/talks-as-ukraine-fighting-worsens/12033425/

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-russia-offensive-20140702-story.html

Is the resistance as fractured between different groups as I think it is? I'm going to guess that the second cease fire will fail as well since there isn't any single rebel group that has dominance AFAIK. So, not all of the rebel groups will agree to the cease fire.

It's likely there won't be any rebel groups to negotiate with when the second cease fire is agreed upon.

Also:

Hauptinhalt
press release
Joint Declaration by the Foreign Ministers of Ukraine, Russia, France and Germany

date of issue
    02.07.2014

The Foreign Ministers of Germany, France, Russia and Ukraine strongly reconfirm their commitment to sustainable peace and stability in Ukraine. In this context they stress the necessity of a sustainable ceasefire, to be agreed upon swiftly and to be observed by all concerned, thus putting an end to violence in Eastern Ukraine.

Ministers urge that the Contact Group should resume no later than July 5th with the goal of reaching an unconditional and mutually agreed sustainable cease-fire. This cease-fire should be monitored by the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission in Ukraine in conformity with its mandate. In that respect, Ministers agree to take all necessary measures and use their influence on the concerned parties with a view to achieving this goal. Ministers stress the importance of a swift release of all hostages.

Ministers welcome Russia’s readiness to grant Ukrainian border guards access to Russian territory in order to participate in the control of border crossings at the checkpoints Gukovo and Donetsk while the mutually agreed cease-fire is in place. This shall be done in close collaboration between Russian and Ukrainian border authorities and pending the return of the Ukrainian checkpoints Izvarino and Krasnopartizansk to Ukrainian government control.

Ministers invite the OSCE to take all necessary steps to deploy OSCE-observers in response to the Russian invitation at the Russian checkpoints Gukovo and Donetsk while the mutually agreed cease-fire is in place. All sides must contribute to a secure environment.

Ministers stress that this would contribute to an effective control of the Russian-Ukrainian border and called for regular and expeditious exchange of relevant information between Russia, Ukraine and the OSCE.

Ministers emphasize the need to ensure safety and security of journalists working in the area of violence.

ARE they as fractured as I think they are? I've heard of several groups and I don't think I've heard of any particular group taking charge in negotiations.

For a cease fire to work, ALL of the rebel groups have to agree on a cease fire and just one of them continuing to fight would screw it up.

[Guardian G.I.]

Hm, they are apparently doing or considering a second cease fire right after the first one utterly failed? Or maybe there are some talks going on which is being called a second cease fire when it hasn't actually happened yet.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/02/talks-as-ukraine-fighting-worsens/12033425/

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-ukraine-russia-offensive-20140702-story.html

Is the resistance as fractured between different groups as I think it is? I'm going to guess that the second cease fire will fail as well since there isn't any single rebel group that has dominance AFAIK. So, not all of the rebel groups will agree to the cease fire.

It's likely there won't be any rebel groups to negotiate with when the second cease fire is agreed upon.

Also:

Hauptinhalt
press release
Joint Declaration by the Foreign Ministers of Ukraine, Russia, France and Germany

date of issue
    02.07.2014

The Foreign Ministers of Germany, France, Russia and Ukraine strongly reconfirm their commitment to sustainable peace and stability in Ukraine. In this context they stress the necessity of a sustainable ceasefire, to be agreed upon swiftly and to be observed by all concerned, thus putting an end to violence in Eastern Ukraine.

Ministers urge that the Contact Group should resume no later than July 5th with the goal of reaching an unconditional and mutually agreed sustainable cease-fire. This cease-fire should be monitored by the OSCE Special Monitoring Mission in Ukraine in conformity with its mandate. In that respect, Ministers agree to take all necessary measures and use their influence on the concerned parties with a view to achieving this goal. Ministers stress the importance of a swift release of all hostages.

Ministers welcome Russia’s readiness to grant Ukrainian border guards access to Russian territory in order to participate in the control of border crossings at the checkpoints Gukovo and Donetsk while the mutually agreed cease-fire is in place. This shall be done in close collaboration between Russian and Ukrainian border authorities and pending the return of the Ukrainian checkpoints Izvarino and Krasnopartizansk to Ukrainian government control.

Ministers invite the OSCE to take all necessary steps to deploy OSCE-observers in response to the Russian invitation at the Russian checkpoints Gukovo and Donetsk while the mutually agreed cease-fire is in place. All sides must contribute to a secure environment.

Ministers stress that this would contribute to an effective control of the Russian-Ukrainian border and called for regular and expeditious exchange of relevant information between Russia, Ukraine and the OSCE.

Ministers emphasize the need to ensure safety and security of journalists working in the area of violence.

ARE they as fractured as I think they are? I've heard of several groups and I don't think I've heard of any particular group taking charge in negotiations.

For a cease fire to work, ALL of the rebel groups have to agree on a cease fire and just one of them continuing to fight would screw it up.

The leadership of the People's Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk supported the ceasefire, but Strelkov proclaimed that he wouldn't let the Ukrainians take convenient positions to assault Slavyansk after the ceasefire. Thus, the fighting continued and Ukrainians and pro-Russians shelled each other.

[Sheb]

Is that the moment he shot down the Ukrainian helicopter?

[smjjames]

Did Donetsk and Lugansk get attacked after that? Seems like they wouldn't be since they obeyed the cease fire.

[Guardian G.I.]

Did Donetsk and Lugansk get attacked after that? Seems like they wouldn't be since they obeyed the cease fire.

There was no fighting in Donetsk and Lugansk, although numerous skirmishes occurred throughout the Donetsk Region.

[vagel7]

Well, if the Ukrainians are finally doing something about it, then I'd say well done. it's about time those rebels were put down with force. Attacking a nation's army with firepower and killing a nation's citizens should not go unpunished.

[smjjames]

Well, if the Ukrainians are finally doing something about it, then I'd say well done. it's about time those rebels were put down with force. Attacking a nation's army with firepower and killing a nation's citizens should not go unpunished.

Collateral damage unfortunately, exists. Even the US screws up.

Hopefully those apartments reportedly that got flattened were evacuated.

[vagel7]

Well, if the Ukrainians are finally doing something about it, then I'd say well done. it's about time those rebels were put down with force. Attacking a nation's army with firepower and killing a nation's citizens should not go unpunished.

Collateral damage unfortunately, exists. Even the US screws up.

Hopefully those apartments reportedly that got flattened were evacuated.

What does the US have anything to do with this?