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[Sergarr]

Life isn't fair, but the discussions must be fair, or else they won't be helpful for anyone.

[LordSlowpoke]

i wish you the best of luck in enforcing your fairness for it is a thing that is never-shaped in a sign of appreciation for the time it has happened

[Sheb]

Actually, I think ivze is a ethnic Russian living in Ukraine.

Now guys, I'd like to remind you to chill. We don't want this thread to be locked.

[Comrade P.]

Looks like Ukraine flamewar over forums is inevitable as long as the whole thing lasts.

[Lav]

Looks like Ukraine flamewar over forums is inevitable as long as the whole thing lasts.

That's natural. There's too much emotional investment, and the lack of objective information in mass media (Russia, Europe and US included, and I won't even touch the cesspit that's current Ukrainian and separatist press) results in highly polarized discussions on the Net, with participants effectively living in very different universes.

Anyway, not that it matters in the long term - my bet is currently on Kiev losing the war, mostly due to internal reasons than any military action by separatists. By the end of the year if Poroshenko stays, within a month or two if he gets ousted by Maidan for being "too soft".

Sorry for the derail, but I didn't know you were a Bay12er Lav (I recognize you from Taleworlds).

I'm everywhere! :-D

[mainiac]

Actually, those evil separatists who, as some people here claim, prevent us from learning the opinion of Eastern Ukraine, started by organizing a referendum to ask for the opinion of people of Eastern Ukraine. And they did invite whatever observers wished to attend.

Canada is the traditional neutral/international observer of Ukrainian elections in the post-soviet era.  They act as the trusted neutral party in all the other constitutional crisis.  The result of Canada's observations of what the "referendum" in Eastern Ukraine is to call for sanctions on Russia.

It's not that the separatists haven't been given a fair chance.  They've been given a fair chance and the honest observers have noted that they are trying to suppress the will of the majority their extra-legal and violent means.

[Comrade P.]

Canada is soooo neutral, given their completely and undoubtedly un-oppressive friendly neighbors have a very specific point of view.

[LordSlowpoke]

thing being, nobody here is neutral

even if you took a country like kiribati which has no reason to give a quarter a fuck about what happens in the ukraine it's just going to pushed into a side by promises of somebody draining the ocean a couple meters or some other shit

[Comrade P.]

thing being, nobody here is neutral

even if you took a country like kiribati which has no reason to give a quarter a fuck about what happens in the ukraine it's just going to pushed into a side by promises of somebody draining the ocean a couple meters or some other shit

Yes, this is so goddamn right.

[Darvi]

thing being, nobody here is neutral

I am, but anything I would say would only fuel the flames even more.

[Comrade P.]

The fact is, anything is fueling the flamewar.

[LordSlowpoke]

thing being, nobody here is neutral

I am, but anything I would say would only fuel the flames even more.

are you trying to get a random government to bribe you

you cheeky bugger

[Sergarr]

The fact is, anything is fueling the flamewar.

Aliens

[Darvi]

The fact is, anything is fueling the flamewar.

Aliens

Actually spies working for the US since first contact in Roswell.

[Guardian G.I.]

Anyway, not that it matters in the long term - my bet is currently on Kiev losing the war, mostly due to internal reasons than any military action by separatists. By the end of the year if Poroshenko stays, within a month or two if he gets ousted by Maidan for being "too soft".

I think that without Russian military intervention, Novorossiya will be crushed sooner or later. Even though the Ukrainian leadership is rather incompetent, the pro-Russian forces are still outnumbered and outgunned. Deliveries of small arms and RPGs and occasional APC or a couple of old tanks from Russia won't help them much in the long term.