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[10ebbor10]

If you have the cash to rent a LPG terminal, and buy LPG, then you certainly have the cash to pay for Russian gas (especially using the prepaid system).

Russia is not entirely unreasonable in this. Ukraine is no longer their ally, so they no longer receive preferential prices. That will crash the Ukrainian economy, but they don't care.

[LordSlowpoke]

...but that lpg is to let the lithuanians stop buying russian gas (which is transported via belarus, so the current events won't hurt them) and therefore reduce the economic leverage russia has on lithuania

it's not because the gas stopped being supplied per se

[10ebbor10]

And it's shut. You know what we should have done months ago? The Lithuanians have a mobile LPG terminal coming from South Korea. We should have pooled some cash to rent it from them and dispatch it to Odessa. (By we, I mean the EU, not Bay12)

Sheb is arguing that we should rent the Lithuanian LPG terminal to provide Ukraine with LPG.

I'm arguing that if we're going through that expense, we might as well just have given Ukraine the money to buy the Russian gas, which would be cheaper (and would also guarantee European supply).

[Helgoland]

What about buying gas collectively? One contract, and one price, for Ukraine and every country west of it.

[10ebbor10]

I don't think that further rising the gas price is the thing Ukraine needs for the moment.

Even with the increase in prices, Ukraine still gets a discount compared to European nations.

[Helgoland]

Source? IIRC, it's the other way around.

[Sheb]

Hard to say, Ukraine was paying 230-250$ per bcf after the 2010 Kharkiv deal. No idea what the current price would be.

Also, Naftogaz's Crimean subisdiary, which was nationalized by Crimea apparently owed its parent company around $1 billion dollar too.

Finally, it seems Ukraine reached a deal with Slovakia to import some gas that way. I don't know if the pipes are ready to pump yet.

[smjjames]

Doesn't most of Europes gas flow through Ukraine? Wouldn't that mean the supply to the rest of Europe is now limited? I'm sure there are other pipelines, but you can only increase the flow so much.

Unless they only shut off the outlets that Ukraine uses and not the pipeline going through Ukraine. Not sure how the system works over there.

Even if Russia hadn't invaded Crimea, the shutdown may still have happened anyway because they are legitimate bills that Ukraine needed to pay.

[Sheb]

Yes and no, most of Europe is okay, but some states like Romania depends almost entirely on gas piped through Ukraine. And no, there is no way for Russia to prevent Ukraine from using the gas intended for other countries. That happened a few year sago (Winter of 2008 I think?)

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Looked through Russian stock market to see how will Investors will react on Gas News from Ukraine. Gazprom has -1%, nothing that goes beyond daily fluctuations.

-4.3% for Sberbank looks strange. Wandering what happened

[smjjames]

Looked through Russian stock market to see how will Investors will react on Gas News from Ukraine. Gazprom has -1%, nothing that goes beyond daily fluctuations.

-4.3% for Sberbank looks strange. Wandering what happened

I'm not normally a grammar nazi, but it's wondering, not wandering, just saying.

As for the stock market, what's happening in Iraq will also influence it since prices have gone up here in the US (as a result of Iraq, not Russia shutting off NG)

[Sheb]

It could be that for Gazprom the negative (No more gas to Ukraine, possible problem with Europe) and the positive (Iraq may blew up, driving the price of our product up) compensate each others.

[10ebbor10]

The problem isn't as big as the gas crisis in 2009, as the North Stream is now operational, so Europe remains supplied.

Hard to say, Ukraine was paying 230-250$ per bcf after the 2010 Kharkiv deal. No idea what the current price would be.

IIRC, it hasn't peaked above 400$ per 1000 cubic meter. That is about 11$/ MMbtu. (It's a bit iffy, as the cubic meter to MMbtu conversion rate depends on the type of gas).  Current European prices are 10.2 USD/MMbtu, but they were 12.6 half a year ago.

However, I have good evidence that the Ukrainian price is actually 380$ per cubic meter, or 320$ per cubic. (Not sure.)

[Sheb]

Well, North Stream won't do much good for the Bulgarian.

[10ebbor10]

The European net is integrated. If needed, we can redistribute pressure.