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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1744311 times)

Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6660 on: June 15, 2014, 10:35:23 am »

That would work excellently, yes. Alternatively, you could go for a more radical separatist who was previously disregarded by the unionists as a nutjob, only to come back in force later and now be a threat against them.

Essentially, Ron Paul (RON PAUL RON PAUL) comes in two flavors: "You could have stopped this from happening, now it's too late." and "All that has transpired has done so as I have foreseen, now who's crazy?".

Well, this is really annoying me because that character is divided across several people in Scottish politics. The only one I can really think of right now is Henry McLeish, former First Minister from years gone by. He was a Labour leader in the early 2000s, but he fell out of favour due to a few minor scandals and his resignation. Since the independence debate began he's been extremely critical of Better Together, saying that Scotland could "sleepwalk into independence" and criticising their extreme negativity, as he perceives it. He routinely challenges their scare stories and demands a positive case be made.


Since he began making these statements, Labour have sidelined him as a loony and basically dismissed everything he's said. The problem with him is that I don't think he's crazy, I think he's a pretty reasonable guy, one of the few decent men in the Labour Party. He doesn't fit the Ron Paul mould.

One guy who does look crazy and is crazy is Tom Hunter, one of Scotland's wealthiest men who made a few interventions in the debate, saying stuff like "Better Together is incredibly negative and making nonsense scare stories, Yes Scotland aren't giving out enough information", managing to be incredibly militant about "getting the answers ordinary people want" etc. The problem is I'm not sure if he fits the mould either because he's not a politician and he hasn't made strong enough statements on the lines we're looking for.

Spoiler: Here are some photos (click to show/hide)

The guy who fits the mould of "separatist who was previously disregarded by the unionists as a nutjob, only to come back in force later and now be a threat against them" would actually be Alex Salmond and the rest of the SNP. He's not a "radical separatist" by any means but he's a good example of a very underestimated foe that is now biting the Unionists in the arse, metaphorically speaking of course.



So I think on the whole Henry McLeish fits the "you could have prevented this, why didn't you listen" bill best, but he's not crazy enough. Well... he is a bit crazy I suppose. Tom Hunter is crazy enough, but he doesn't fit the "you could have prevented this" thing so well. He does commission polls though so maybe he would work for the "it's happening" thing. Alex Salmond is the most well known figure in this entire independence debate and he is the underestimated politician, now causing earthquakes. He pursued the addition of a question related to increased devolution on the ballot paper but the British government refused, so that may work for the "you could have prevented this" thing. I can't really make a decision here though, it's hard to say.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 10:42:48 am by Owlbread »
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6661 on: June 15, 2014, 11:16:02 am »

ALEX SALMOND 2012!
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6662 on: June 15, 2014, 11:20:26 am »

I suppose Richard Evans is a Marxist so you might consider him biased, but his analysis is worthwhile.

It's not so much his politics I distrust as that I can't seem to find any economic credentials to his name and he seems to be more concerned with what I would call the cultural changes of Germany (although I'm sure there is a term of art that is more appropriate).  When someone who is basically an amateur produces a very counter-intuitive result I'm very skeptical.

It is possible for standards of living to stagnate even as output rises dramatically.  Britain even had a substantial decline in standards of living during the mid 19th century.  But it's a pretty unusual circumstance that is generally created by a shift of rural workers to industrial production.
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6663 on: June 15, 2014, 12:22:18 pm »

I don't remember shortage, but the increase in quality of life wasn't that great compared to other countries. Even with Volkswagen and the Autobahn, German car ownership was lower than in France or Britain. Remember than Germany wasn't the only place progressing: in the meantime France was introducing stuff like the 40-hours week and paid vacations. 

Edit: I'm just going to post this video for my fellow Belgians. Yes it's not politics, but I'm sure the OP will forgive me. Basically 10 minutes of people making fun of us. :p
« Last Edit: June 15, 2014, 03:04:42 pm by Sheb »
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

smjjames

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6664 on: June 15, 2014, 07:26:38 pm »

Bunch of Ukraine stuff:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/ukrainian-diplomat-uses-swearword-for-putin/2014/06/15/53500721-b8fe-47af-b1c1-2fa0682cbd7c_story.html It's one thing for a diplomat to insult a leader in private, but saying it in front of protestors and then have the protestors chant it? *shakes head* Also, the Russian embassy got mobbed.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27862849 Talks to solve the deadline to pay the gas bill failed and the Monday deadline is still on. I think there's another round continuing.

Someones analysis of the mystery tanks: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27849437
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6665 on: June 15, 2014, 10:29:12 pm »

greatorder, just wandering...

And what do you think Ukraine should do instead of "throwing the crap from the holes"?


P.S. Thank you minister of Foreign affairs, hysteria among Russian after you insulted their führer is rather fun
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6666 on: June 16, 2014, 12:47:10 am »

Well, the gas deadline is in 10 minutes, and no deal is in sight.

The European Commission is, I quote "very confident a deal will be reached". They made me laugh. :p
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

LordSlowpoke

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6667 on: June 16, 2014, 01:00:34 am »

rest in pieces eastern european gas supply ;_;7

maybe this will be the motor needed to revive nuclear...
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TD1

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6668 on: June 16, 2014, 01:07:18 am »

...war
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6669 on: June 16, 2014, 01:19:37 am »

DON'T TELL THEM THAT
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6670 on: June 16, 2014, 02:41:21 am »

And it's shut. You know what we should have done months ago? The Lithuanians have a mobile LPG terminal coming from South Korea. We should have pooled some cash to rent it from them and dispatch it to Odessa. (By we, I mean the EU, not Bay12)
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Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

10ebbor10

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6671 on: June 16, 2014, 02:52:21 am »

Or we could have given Ukraine the money for the gas. Would have been cheaper as well.
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6672 on: June 16, 2014, 02:53:42 am »

from where are you planning to get something $5bil
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10ebbor10

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6673 on: June 16, 2014, 02:59:52 am »

Russia might have increased the price, but Russian gas for Ukraine is still cheaper than renting an LNG terminal, and then buying LNG.

Remember, this issue is caused entirely by the fact that Ukraine couldn't pay for it's gas, despite a massive discount (which Moscow then removed, obviously).
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LordSlowpoke

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #6674 on: June 16, 2014, 03:04:46 am »

no, for real, from where are you planning to get the cash needed to pay its debt (the current billion, then the gas that ukraine needs to return as part of the 2010 stockholm ruling and others)

i think the prepayment system might be good for everyone involved, what with the ukrainian oligarchs forced to rethink their inefficient and wasteful industry
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