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[Sheb]

Yeah, if at any reasonable level, ubi won't let you live comfortably for a long time.

[GlyphGryph]

Yeah, if at any reasonable level, ubi won't let you live comfortably for a long time.

You'd be surprised at how little money a person needs to live comfortably for a long time, so long as they have free/affordable healthcare.

A huge portion of the costs-of-living are actually costs-of-being-able-to-reliably-make-money.

For a lot of people, myself included, something like this would be akin to winning the lottery.

You either make it "enough" so that people can afford to get a job (meaning that if they don't ever bother looking they can probably live quite comfortably), or you make it uncomfortable enough the people on it can't afford to simultaneously look for a job (can't afford a car, regular computer access, a phone, a place to live within commuting distance of possible places of employment, or at least the cost of public transit).

Personally, I don't think it's that much of a problem.

[10ebbor10]

Having a decent reemployement service that ties into this would help. Rather than money, give services.

[Sheb]

Okay, I'll expand a bit now that I'm on a real computer. To me, unemployment benefits are an insurance, something that was meant to let people that just lost their jobs find another one. Not a benefit program that you're supposed to live off. As such, people that are on unemployment benefits but not looking for work are well, abusing the system.

UBI on the other hands, are a mean to redistribute income and show that our society has progressed beyond the level where we need everyone to work. They're also a way to prepare for a post-scarcity society.

[Sheb]

Where I live too, but I know many people who successfully cheated the system (Like spending 6 month in training gardening skills). I'm not sure more control is required though (As you end up spending most of the time harassing people that are already looking for work). But I support some control.

[Descan]

I want a system where you can do what you want with your time and not starve. I don't believe that everything that is worth doing is something profitable/something that someone would pay you for. Especially if you constrict that to "something that you can be paid enough for to survive."


Also, those systems in the UK where you need to "work" in order to get benefits are insane. :I

[10ebbor10]

We might be in reach to contemplate the possibility of post scarcity, but we,re not there yet.

[Sheb]

However, we're getting to the point were full employment is not doable anymore. We have to accept that there won't be work for everyone and that those that don't get to work shouldn't starve.

[Guardian G.I.]

This footage shot by pro-Russian forces and broadcasted by the bloodthirsty Russian television channel LifeNews shows an attack at a Ukrainian army checkpoint in the village of Cherevkovka on the road between Slavyansk and Donetsk.
The weapons used by pro-Russian forces in the video are old WW2 anti-tank rifles, an NSV Utes machine gun and a Fagot anti-tank missile launcher.

[Loud Whispers]

1. Advocated giving exclusive voting rights to tatars, which makes as much sense as giving exclusive voting rights to native americans in north america.

Again, you're obviously not reading what I'm saying, just superficially skimming through it.
Ukrainian Ranger said that voting rights in Crimea should only be given to people who speak Crimean Tatar. That would mean Russians would have to learn the language of the country they've settled in in order to vote. Considering a fair number of people in the UK, USA, France and Russia would feel uncomfortable if immigrants who could not speak English (or French and Russian respectively) were able to vote, I don't think that's as racist/unreasonable an expectation as it may seem.

http://on.aol.co.uk/video/bill-de-blasio-addresses-supporters-in-spanish-during-victory-speech-518001622
If you ever get to that point there's no going back, add the immigrant language to the education curriculum.

That said, I then rejected it by stating that I think that voting rights should always be given to everyone living within a political unit, including prisoners. If you had actually read what I had to say you would have known that.

I'm not trying to win an argument I'm trying to have a discussion,  didn't even know I was supposed to be addressing your points until now. A misunderstanding?

There were several further posts along these lines - "But what about OUR CRIMES" or "What about THAT country's crimes? Don't hear much about them!" - but I will just answer them now generally.

I know that Russians/Japanese/Germans/French/English/Scots/Spaniards etc are not responsible for the actions of their ancestors. I have never claimed this. My problem is and always has been with people who pretend those crimes never happened, and ignore the crimes that are going on today. I argue with people from the countries you've already mentioned on a very regular basis. The only reason why I am banging on about Crimea right now is because it is topical.

So this is general now? Because if you specifically talking about me, or because just now it seems you weren't I'm just going to bang on about it again, you said so yourself we almost wholly agree.
Who are they that deny it happened? Because it was recognised by Russian fed and Crimean parliament, and does just sound like everyone pointing at who enslaved who, who deported who.

[Owlbread]

Spoiler: Loud Whispers discussion (click to show/hide)

http://on.aol.co.uk/video/bill-de-blasio-addresses-supporters-in-spanish-during-victory-speech-518001622
If you ever get to that point there's no going back, add the immigrant language to the education curriculum.

I fully support the addition of Polish and Urdu to the Scottish education curriculum and look forward to a day in Scotland where we don't have to speak English in order to have a happy, normal life. I'm not in the "immigrants who can't speak English are a bad thing" camp, I was just saying that UR's views were actually far more mainstream than at first glance.

I'm not trying to win an argument I'm trying to have a discussion,  didn't even know I was supposed to be addressing your points until now. A misunderstanding?

It's not about arguments or even addressing my points, it's more that I'm concerned you don't know where I'm coming from with this, leading to misunderstandings.

Also, those systems in the UK where you need to "work" in order to get benefits are insane. :I

They really are. They can be easily exploited by "employers" too.

[Loud Whispers]

English is special though, what with it being the latin of our age.

[Owlbread]

English is special though, what with it being the latin of our age.

I always get annoyed when I see Latin inscriptions in Scotland. If it was up to me, I'd have them all removed and replaced with Gaelic.

[LordSlowpoke]

polish and urdu are fine

latin and english need to be replaced

i can see some logic behind this

but soon enough polish and urdu will stop being fine, won't they

[mainiac]

We might be in reach to contemplate the possibility of post scarcity, but we,re not there yet.

How are we not in a post scarcity state?

Less then 2% of our workforce needs to farm to keep us overfed.  Less then 20% of our workforce needs to manufacture goods or resources to keep us well supplied.  More people are involved in retail or financial services then the actual production and transportation of goods.  If you buy a product that is made in american then much less then half of it's cost is related to manufacturing and transportation.  Corporate salaries, capital costs on retail space, retail costs, speculative capital costs, they all add up and they have bupkis to do with the scarcity of the good.

Not to mention that a huge concern right now is the possibility of secular stagnation which is a form of persistent overproduction (due to a decline in need for capital goods).

Post scarcity isn't something where suddenly it dawns and you go from everyone being short to abundance everywhere.  It comes incrementally.  And clearly we are in a post-scacity environment.  There are enough of every good and services for everyone, it's just a question of how to distribute them without compromising your production system.