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[scriver]

I want to help you out here; I wasn't born into these world views, I acquired them over my time through the persuasion of evidence strung up in neat arguments. Your convictions are strong, your morals are good and all that, but you will never change anyone's mind on this if your gut reaction is to call them racist and then try arguing everything in terms of race, because I and others like me haven't come to these conclusions because of race. Let's say here - what if the conclusion I've come to is wrong, and you have a chance to correct me? What if I've seen the mathematical evidence, the graph charts, the witnesses, the personal experiences and have come to the conclusion the world is a turtle. You have a conviction otherwise, that the world is a spheroid made up of a crust over a molten iron core and all that. You are sure you can convince fools like me of the truth, and you go about explaining it using DaDa performance art. It will get you the same level of understanding and communication as you are doing now.

Yeah, I was going to respond to the rest of your post, but this part just made me too angry to formulate anything at all. To keep myself from degenerating into nothing but personal attacks, I'm just going to say that you can't accuse me of "just lambasting" and not bringing sources and then swing around and do the exact same thing and add a heap of fallacies and condescending ad hominem attacks at that. You "just want to help me out"? Priceless, man. Priceless.

The onus is on the sceptic, not the believer, Scriver.

Here's the thing. "Burden of proof" is never a one side thing. Debate isn't some kind of king of the hill game. You don't get a pass from backing yourself up just because you're the first to state an opinion. In an honest discussion, the "onus" is on all who wants to defend their position.

[Loud Whispers]

I accused you because you never substantiated your allegations. That's how it works.

[TD1]

Loud Whispers, you were a bit condescending. Intentional or not, it still at least seems to be there.


What are your reasons for believing racism is the same? America it's American Black vs. American White (Most of the time) Whereas in Europe it isn't White vs. Black, it's Spaniard vs. French, English vs. French, Spaniard vs. Turk, etc.

As such, they have historical xenophobic and propaganda based roots, and tend to be cultural racism than colour racism. Whilst colour is used too, it doesn't make up the bulk of it as it does in America.

And also, the "Racism is worse the browner you get" can equally be applied to "Racism is worse the whiter you get." I have given statistics which back that up, black people are more racist towards you the whiter that you get, and are more likely to mug/rape/kill you.

[Loud Whispers]

Loud Whispers, you were a bit condescending. Intentional or not, it still at least seems to be there.

Not the intention. If I'd suspect any emotion to have creeped in the first half it'd have been irritance, because I had to retype everything after a browser crash, my patience was much shorter than before. I could understand how the second half'd be seen as condescending, because by then I was pretty much just taking any laugh I could out of it because this almost got boring.

[Loud Whispers]

Ukrainistan:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Comrade P.]

...

Did CNN just mistaken Ukraine for Pakistan? I heard Americans are a bit challenged with geography sometimes, but that...

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I have to believe these news organizations are just having offset glitches with their map pointers. The alternative, that these are legitimate mistakes, is too horrifying to contemplate.

[Guardian G.I.]

I have to believe these news organizations are just having offset glitches with their map pointers. The alternative, that these are legitimate mistakes, is too horrifying to contemplate.

Relevant.


A map from that article, depicting the results of a survey in which Americans were asked to locate Ukraine.
I'd love to see the people who thought Ukraine is in Siberia, Greenland and Canadian Arctic Islands (!), Pakistan (!!), Canada (!!), the USA itself (!!!), the Arctic Sea and the Pacific Ocean (!!!!), and so on and so forth...

[scrdest]

I have to believe these news organizations are just having offset glitches with their map pointers. The alternative, that these are legitimate mistakes, is too horrifying to contemplate.

Relevant.

-snip-
A map from that article, depicting the results of a survey in which Americans were asked to locate Ukraine.
I'd love to see the people who thought Ukraine is in Siberia, Greenland and Canadian Arctic Islands (!), Pakistan (!!), Falkland Islands (!!), the USA itself (!!!), the Arctic Sea (!!!!), and so on and so forth...

A lot of those are probably people just going 'eh, I dunno, whatever' and just making a dot anywhere.

[WarRoot]

And then they get hired by news organizations.

[Guardian G.I.]

Spoiler: Preliminary referendum results, Donetsk Region (click to show/hide)

89% voted to secede from Ukraine.
Voter turnout - 74.8%
Source (in Russian)

[Helgoland]

At least it's not 95%. Not a believable number, but at least they're trying.

German media reported that the separatists stated that the referendum was not intended as a way to break away from Ukraine, but rather to demonstrate the legitimacy of the separatists' position. Maybe 'separatist' has become a misnomer...

[Loud Whispers]

How's the rest of Ukraine reacting? And I'm all for democratic referendums but when you hear people talking about predetermining the results before the voting you get skeptical.

[martinuzz]

While I am not specifically pro EU / pro Russian or whatever,
I do wonder why the UN has not sent an army yet to drive those 'seperatists' away who captured Red Cross employees for 'espionage'. That is such a clear break of the Geneva convention, and all rules of conflict, that every day the UN does not send peacekeeping forces, they are losing credibility.

This referendum cannot be credible at all, held by war criminals like that.

[Loud Whispers]

While I am not specifically pro EU / pro Russian or whatever,
I do wonder why the UN has not sent an army yet to drive those 'seperatists' away who captured Red Cross employees for 'espionage'. That is such a clear break of the Geneva convention, and all rules of conflict, that every day the UN does not send peacekeeping forces, they are losing credibility.

This referendum cannot be credible at all, held by war criminals like that.

Russia veto