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[TD1]

Oh, but in some countries it does get worse the whiter you are. In the U.S.:
http://www.solargeneral.com/jeffs-archive/primer/the-color-of-crime/


South Africa:
http://violenceagainstwhites.wordpress.com/category/south-africa/

[LordSlowpoke]

South Africa:
http://violenceagainstwhites.wordpress.com/category/south-africa/

there are better sources my friend

[Descan]

So... Your sources are a proudly White Nationalist (you know, racists and Nazis, and for once not hyperbole) website calling themselves "The Most Controversial, Censored and Forbidden Web Site in the World", and a wordpress website with a banner straight out of Geo-cities specifically about violence against white people.

Hrm.

[TD1]

As to the "Most Controversial, Censored and Forbidden Web Site in the World" It does sound rather ridiculous. However, I have heard those figures elsewhere. If you can find contradictory figures, I would more than happily amend my thinking if they seem reasonable enough.

As for the South Africa link, LordSlowpoke quite rightly put up a better link, one that was founded by Dr. Stanton.

Also, here's an alternative link to the USA one:
http://www.examiner.com/article/federal-statistics-of-black-on-white-violence-with-links-and-mathematical-extrapolation-formulas

[Descan]

I was more bothered by it being an avowed White Nationalist (Again, actually racist) group than the hyperbole of the subtitle.

[TD1]

Sure, I understand that.

But I was more looking at the facts, which to me seemed backed up. And further search has shown they are. Still, I get where you're coming from.

[scriver]

And regardless, none of those are European.

[TD1]

No. Because it doesn't really happen quite the same in Europe.

I guess racism must be different here than it is in America.

[scriver]

You were the one arguing "it gets worse the whiter you are", not me, dude.

[Guardian G.I.]

Spoiler: Meanwhile in Ukraine (let us avoid flaming holy wars) (click to show/hide)

Pro-Russian forces are holding a referendum on sovereignty of People's Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk. They claim to have high voter turnout.





Queue at one of voting polls in Donetsk, as recorded by one Russian supporter.

This comes after intense fighting in Mariupol between the Ukrainian National Guard (supported by several IFVs) and pro-Russian forces (supported by the local police) on the 9th and 10th of May, in which dozens of people have been killed (numbers vary depending on the political orientation of the source). Ukrainian army forces also shelled positions of pro-Russian forces in Slavyansk around 3:00 am local time today. Reportedly, Ukrainian National Guard and pro-Russian forces are currently fighting in the town of Novoaidar in the Luhansk Region.

[Helgoland]

Are there any outside observers? A German newspaper claimed these huge crowds form because of the low number of polling places, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

@Racism: The thing is that there's much fewer black people in Europe than in the US. While we do have white-vs-black racism, it's not a huge issue - simply because of the numbers (at least in Germany; it might be different in France and other countries with African immigration). Racism here usually goes against the major immigrant groups, regardless of color: In Germany, that's Arabs and the Turkish (and, to a lesser degree, Slavs - Russians and South-East Europeans).

[Guardian G.I.]

Are there any outside observers? A German newspaper claimed these huge crowds form because of the low number of polling places, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

It's not clear if there are any observers there or not, but obviously, there are no observers from major Western organizations like OSCE and the like, because they don't recognize it.
Russian media claims that there are queues because of high voter turnout.

[Loud Whispers]

Still kinda fuckhuegy post.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm just going to say that "we don't have a problem with people hating brown people over here in jolly Britain, that's an American Thing" is some of the most condescending bullshit I've ever seen before, especially considering everything I've seen from the British right-wing.

MSH, I'm not saying it is nonexistent, I'm saying Europe is more complicated and that whereas American racism is based on notions of white racial supremacy and "us vs them" communal segregation Europe can trace its to historical events and cultural clashes.

You (or TheDwarfyOne, since he most likely brought it up to make a point) could take your own advice and explain why you think Australia's boat immigrant policy aren't racist. If all you want to do is scoff at me then you'd be better off just doing it loudly to your computer.

I'm pissed off because I've just had to retype everything after a browser crash just as I was about to post.
You are saying they're racist. You are making the claim. You prove it. I am too tired to do all the research again when the other person only has to say one word and pretend they don't have the burden of proof. I'll only do more research if it leads to something constructive, and finding out that Australia can't handle more immigrants isn't exactly a shocking thing to need to spend another second on.

Don't get stuck up on the semantics of my "melanin" comments, you know very well that I'm not saying it is the only basis for racism.

1. I don't know that. All my time spent in the GZ trial where big American news stations stressed how white-hispanic he was and literally doctored evidence to create a racial narrative has given me THAT impression and the further impression that it has mainstream belief - considering just HOW MUCH support they got.
2. You said nothing to dispel that impression.

For one:

My perspective is from 'Merrica, where anti-immigration is 100% focused on racism.

It's the same in Europe.

The thing is, it isn't particularly different [from the USA]. I agree that the USA has a whole bunch of racism issues that Europe doesn't (particularly with their institutionalized racism and the way they think in actual races), but the gist is the same.

I don't know about you, but where I'm from saying "the gist is the same" tends to mean "the gist is the same." American racism is divided on skin colour, they have no race other than skin colour to divide themselves on. In Europe where skin colour is just about the same, now that just isn't as true.

For seconds:

Regardless, it's all about where people come from, and about letting certain peoples in and keeping others out.

Or well, "ethnicism", since a lot of racists get all semantical about what racism is.

European racism is not about letting certain peoples in and keeping others out, it is to do with the past historical actions of powers against powers whose consequences linger to this day. Newspapers that try to appease the racist hearts of Europeans by telling them that they have no argument against EU immigration since the majority of EU immigrants are white aryan master race are completely missing the point; it is not a matter of race to begin with.

For thirds:

The more melanin you produce, the bigger chance of you being in the "Out" group, of course.

People are hated for having different cultures, and racism gets worse the browner you are. And currently, the more "Muslim" you are, of course.

Which is of course, utter sheer bollocks.
1. Racism is much less to do with the colour of your skin in Europe, Armenians and Greeks are no less white than Turks and Spaniards and yet racism persists.
2. Some racism doesn't have anything to do with immigration, like Turks and Cypriots. Some racism doesn't have anything to do with different cultures, with one culture having been entirely subsumed or having been intermixed or having played no role in it - like with the Mediterranean, the Balkans or Russia.
3. To dispel the melanin myth further, the majority of violent hate crimes that result in injury in the UK are directed against white people. The less melanin you have, the more likely you are to get wrecked for your skin.
4. The whole muslim thing is again a lot more complicated than that, and simply saying muslimness = bullseye target is a gross over simplification that glosses over many things. It forgets about intramuslim racism, such as with Britain and Pakistani/Bengali muslims or with Azerbaijan and Sunni/Shia sectarian tensions. It also implies that racism is largely only directed against muslims, which is bollocks in practically everything the Ottoman Empire once owned. It also has the happily ignores all the times when muslims are not only accepted, but catered to and celebrated, such as various mosques being built in Europe and there was a Malaysian culture festival in London just last year.

Beyond that, I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here. Racism isn't racist because immigrants are racists too?

I'm saying when you call immigrants opposing unrestricted immigration even from their own race racist, it isn't racism it's madness because they clearly aren't opposing the minimal controls because of racism.
I want to help you out here; I wasn't born into these world views, I acquired them over my time through the persuasion of evidence strung up in neat arguments. Your convictions are strong, your morals are good and all that, but you will never change anyone's mind on this if your gut reaction is to call them racist and then try arguing everything in terms of race, because I and others like me haven't come to these conclusions because of race. Let's say here - what if the conclusion I've come to is wrong, and you have a chance to correct me? What if I've seen the mathematical evidence, the graph charts, the witnesses, the personal experiences and have come to the conclusion the world is a turtle. You have a conviction otherwise, that the world is a spheroid made up of a crust over a molten iron core and all that. You are sure you can convince fools like me of the truth, and you go about explaining it using DaDa performance art. It will get you the same level of understanding and communication as you are doing now.

[smjjames]

Are there any outside observers? A German newspaper claimed these huge crowds form because of the low number of polling places, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

It's not clear if there are any observers there or not, but obviously, there are no observers from major Western organizations like OSCE and the like, because they don't recognize it.
Russian media claims that there are queues because of high voter turnout.

It could be a combination of high voter turnout and fewer voting places. Lots of people going to one polling place could give the appearance of high voter turnout.

Lets just hope the number doesn't come out an absurd number like 95%. I don't know what the demographics in Donetisk and Slavyansk are though.

From the images, that IS a lot of people and I could see something like this as having high voter turnout. However, because of Russias history of rigging polls, theres the question of just how valid it actually is.

Edit: According to wiki, Donetsk City muncipality is roughly half ethnic Russian and half ethnic Ukrainian with the rest being various other ethnicities. The wiki page for Slavyansk doesn't have census info, but I'd imagine it to be similar to Donetsk.

[TD1]

The onus is on the sceptic, not the believer, Scriver.